Bonus Episode: Pitfalls in Business by the Enneagram Numbers - THE NINE


The #9 on the Enneagram is often called the Peacekeeper or mediator. They make great friends and are often easy to get along with. At their healthiest, they are fair, assertive, kind, and powerful. When their strengths become weaknesses, they can forget to take care of their own needs, and may harbor resentment and anger. Listen to expert, Linda Frazee, break down the 9 in intimate detail on this episode of the SideHustle Lounge Podcast.


Guest Information:

Linda Frazee has over 40 years of experience as a professional speaker, business consultant and executive coach. She is the author, "Full Heart Satisfied Belly," and is founder of Positive Imagery, Inc., a personal and professional development company located in Scottsdale, AZ. Her professional training is in Transpersonal Psychology and Imagery.

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Episode Highlights:

09:42 The underlying motivation for the nine is to avoid conflict.

10:57 The nines are delightful to live with. They really are. They're really easy to live with, and they're wonderful. And they're not likely to go over their boundaries, except with themselves.

34:42 Nines will be the best workers that you could ever find once they figure out what they're supposed to do, or somebody else tells them what to do. But the challenge for them is with their own personal agendas.

--- Full Raw Transcription Below ---

Linda Frazee (00:00):
It's your own natural superpower that you're walking around carying. And so just by learning and practicing to take action, more appropriate action in a reasonable amount of time. You've got the best of both worlds.

Speaker 2 (00:16):
Welcome to the Side Hustle Lounge. If you're looking for flexible ways to earn income, grow your mindset and live the lifestyle, you've always dreamed of you're in the right place. So lower the lights. Grab your favorite beverage and join your host, founder of and Amazon bestselling author of Sign And Thrive, How To Make Six Figures As A Mobile Notary and loan sign agent, Bill Saroka.

Bill Saroka (00:50):
Cheers, and welcome back to my guest today, Linda Frazee, as we continue our conversation on the pitfalls of business by the Enneagram numbers. Today we're talking about the number nine on the Enneagram. Linda, thank you so much again for being here with us.

Linda Frazee (01:08):
Oh, you're welcome, Bill. It's always a pleasure to talk about the Enneagram and help people understand the system.

Bill Saroka (01:17):
Yeah. Well, I'm loving this, I'm loving the conversations surrounding it. Number nine holds a, a special place in your heart because your husband was a nine as well. So I'm looking forward to diving in deep into his personality and the nine in general. Before we do that, though, we've kicked off every episode with interesting an interesting tip about the Enneagram. What can you share with us today?

Linda Frazee (01:48):
Well, it's interesting people sometimes ask about what happens if you have a healthy person in this system or an unhealthy. Well, and that's a, that is a good question because the interesting fact is that there are three love levels of health generally associated with the Enneagram and that would be unhealthy, healthy, and a really, really healthy. I mean, so there's like kind of like a unhealthy and average or normal and then really healthy. And when we talk about health, we don't just mean that your body is working well and you exercise, it's an emotional and mental, psychological health. And even a spiritual health. And so that is a, so that could change the landscape for a particular number altogether. Now let's use the nine since that's our one for today.

Linda Frazee (02:39):
One of the major issues for the nine is procrastination. And I want everybody to remember that we all procrastinate. We all have things that we procrastinate on. So it's not like, oh, you say, well, I've heard that word, that I must be a nine. It's about, have you procrastinated all your life? And what do you procrastinate about? The nine procrastinates about their own personal agenda. Mm-Hmm . And so if you have an unhealthy nine you have somebody who really maybe forgets to get a job, you know, they, they just forget to ever do a resume, they forget to.. Somebody says gee, I've got a friend that has a job you want, want to talk to them and they say, say, oh good. But they forget to go. And their sloth is the sloth or inertia is considered the, the challenge for the nine.

Linda Frazee (03:27):
And so it's just a lot easier to watch TV, to read a book, go have some fun do small tasks that keep you busy. And so all of that is in, in the area of procrastination. So if you're really unhealthy, they could really just really never get their life off of the ground, basically. Mm-hmm And an average nine would be somebody who works well, very good worker because it's somebody else's agenda. They tell you what to do every day. You go to work, can't find a better worker get there, cause they don't have to worry about it. But when they come home, they have a hard time attending to their own needs. And you know, in their, their fear of conflict is so large that they will, they'll kind of give themselves up in a variety of ways in order to just keep things going.

Linda Frazee (04:15):
So that would be an average one and they would sometimes procrastinate, but not all the times. And a really healthy nine is someone who recognizes these things about themselves and has learned to motivate themselves through the procrastination. And is someone who, who calls themselves on their own actions and say there I go again being lazy and you know, one of the techniques I give for the of nine is the, in fact, I used to buy timers before we had cell phones, but now we can put, that we have timers on our cell phones. But I used to, to actually buy bunches of timers and hand them out to nines as part of their their action items when they would see me individually, because you know, I'd say, okay, so you want to read a book, set the timer, read a book, 30 minutes. Okay?

Linda Frazee (05:03):
Then when it goes off, go do what your work is and do that for 60 minutes or whatever is necessary so that they can get that they could have, you know, time where they, they can zone out is what we call it for a nine. And they can also have time of good production. So that would be somebody, somebody who's just using the nine as an example, just one of many ways that a nine could demonstrate health. Let me give you another one while we're at it. This is a little bit different way we're starting this presentation, but that's good because it's not, it's not, it's not cookie cutter. Enneagram is not cookie cutter in the first place.

Bill Saroka (05:38):

Linda Frazee (05:39):
Another major thing would be conflict. Now again, most every type except for the eight of the Enneagram does not really like conflict.

Linda Frazee (05:49):
So you could say, well, I'm conflict avoidant. I must be a nine. Well, you, we all don't like it. But the nine abhors it. So they are just going to stay out of it no matter what. So an unhealthy nine would, well, well, just like what I said earlier, they may not get a job because it could be conflict. I mean, somebody could tell them what to do, you know? They may be so, you know, as a kid, they're resisting their parents to the degree that they, they won't ever get off a dime because their want them to get a job. So they won't get a job because there's a conflict and they're rebellious, there's a teenager. And then they carry that on in their life. And their fear of conflict absolutely, you know, underpins their whole being to the point where they couldn't even go on and do things.

Linda Frazee (06:32):
Okay. Now an average nine this is an example I often and give of nines is you, you, you must understand that to a nine conflict, what an average person thinks of that's not a nine, is a big conflict to a nine. So let's say a nine goes to a diner and they order a cheeseburger and they bring them a a grilled cheese. The nine will eat the grilled cheese, will never tell…..

Bill Saroka (06:56):
Not even say anything.

Linda Frazee (06:58):
No, not even say, you know, I ordered a cheeseburger. Why? Well, it could cause some conflict. It could cause some disharmony with the waitress, you know? And so it's, you know, and if they say to your nine partner, like I had, as Bill mentioned, my husband was a nine, and say, gee, what do you want to do today? Oh, I don't care. What do you want to do?

Linda Frazee (07:15):
You know? And, and another thing they'll do you, you go to a restaurant, there's a big menu and you order something, they'll say I don't have what you're having. Mm-Hmm Cause there's just all these ways to avoid any, that would be considered a conflict to an average nine's eyes. And so part of what the, the action item for them about health is make your own choices, you know, say what you want, if the food comes it's the wrong one, send it back. You know, and it sounds like, well, yeah, would that be so hard? It's hard for a nine. Okay. A healthy nine someone who's moved into this nine place into the healthy part of the nine and has developed themselves, knows this about themselves. And is, if they're upset with a partner or somebody at work, they will go in and say, look, I want to talk to you about something. And because they are called the harmonizer, the peacemaker and the mediator, they're usually not screaming and yelling. They're usually you know, very calm and they can just smooth waters and get lots of things done. And because they've learned that, you know, and, and all also they have learned to manage procrastination and other challenging traits that the nine has. And I want to remind us, we all have them. We all have these traits. It's just, these are the ones that the nine has.

Bill Saroka (08:30):
This stands out for the nine. Yeah. So what is some of the strongest characteristics of a nine?

Linda Frazee (08:37):
Oh, well, there are so many. They are really easy to be around. They go along to get along, which in, in a lot of cases they will say, I really don't care. So if you say, what do you want to do? And they say, well, I don't know, what do you want to do? And they really don't care a lot of the times. Sometimes that's because they're not really attached themselves, but a lot of the times they're, they're just willing. They're just willing to go along. And they, because they're called a mediator, the harmonizer …boy, I tell you if there is a disagreement in a family, they're the ones that can see both sides of it. And just smooth that out. Just very, very well. They are very accommodating to other people. Again, any strength that's overused can become a weakness, but generally speaking, they're very accommodating.

Linda Frazee (09:21):
So they look a lot like twos. I might ask because we've talked about the twos who are the helpers. So again, remember if you look just at behavior, you say, oh, well, I, I think everybody is a two or everybody that I see that's accommodating a nine, but it's why the motivation underneath it for the two is to get the approval of the people and to be liked. The underlying motivation for the nine is to avoid conflict. And another way to look at it is the twos are actively going toward others to help. The nine is responding. So let's say that they're in a business situation and, and somebody comes to the door, you're in a conference room and somebody comes to the door with their arms full of they're bringing coffee to everybody in coffee cups. They went to Starbucks, they've got coffee for everybody.

Linda Frazee (10:12):
You know, the, the two is already waiting. The, the two is scanning the room all the time. Like, what can I do to help? Oh, here comes John. I got to go open the door. And they're at the door as soon as John comes and they're open the door and it all looks good. The nine, if they're standing by the door and, and they can, they can see they'll open the door. But if they're on the other side of the room, they won't because I mean, they're responding to the need whereas the two is, is searching for the need to be a service.

Bill Saroka (10:41):
Got it. Yeah. So the two's like thinking of napkins, thinking of spoons, who's going to need the sugar and the cream.

Linda Frazee (10:47):
Exactly. And, and knows already everybody's order by it. So, you know, here here's yours, I know you want cream, whatever. But but getting back to the positive traits, the nines are delightful to live with. They really are. They're really easy to live with, and they're wonderful. They're helpful, but not, they have good boundaries. They're not likely to go over their boundaries except with themselves. And again, they're just very seemingly very balanced people. Now this is a, another kind of secret of the nine. They are, their persona is I'm chill. I'm fine. I'm just relaxed. I have no problem. Anything you want to do, I'm right with you, which can in fact, hide anxiety inside because they've maybe have given up themselves again, depending on where they are on the scale. And I also want to go back to that, that interesting fact of the unhealthy and average and, and very healthy.

Linda Frazee (11:47):
And that is that we all could do that in a day. So it isn't like you spend 10 years and one and 10 and another and 10 and another, and that there's this point of demarcation. It's more about the fact that you know, if we're, the better we're taking care of ourselves, the better we're going to be in the average or the healthy part. And then of course life comes along as it has with COVID and other things, or, you know, losses in your family or disappointments. And that can, that will dip anybody of any type into the lower or unhealthy aspects of themselves.

Bill Saroka (12:22):
Yeah. Is it, with the nines, you, you say they give up themselves. Is it a conscious decision for them? I mean, are they in their mind saying I really want this, but they want this, so I'm going to choose that because they want it, or is it more of a subconscious decision?

Linda Frazee (12:39):
Well, that's a really good question, Bill. I would say at the unhealthy level or at the entry point for someone who's never really done any, any personal growth, it's totally unconscious. It's just the way they've been all their life. And they just think that's the way there is. Is a more average person will realize they're doing it and do it anyway, you know. Until sometimes maybe not. And the healthy ones will start to do it and say, no, you know, that isn't really what I want. I have an illustration of that: years ago, I was at a big conference and I had about 500 people in a room and I was doing a panel. A panel is when there are several people of one type leading with one type that come up and sit in chairs and, and talk about why they do what they do.

Linda Frazee (13:28):
And so I didn't know anybody in the audience. So sometimes when I do panels, or often I prefer to have somebody who I know for sure knows their type, but I didn't know anybody. So I said I need three nines, you know, who thinks there are nines? So I know the audience came these three men. None of them I knew. And I would say they were at the time probably 50 to 60, at least three of them. So they're sitting there. And so the first question I said, so tell me, when was the last time you got angry and they kind of looked at each other. One of them said like 1954 And I said really? And so that began the conversation. Another fellow said, oh yeah, I get angry all the time. I just don't show it.

Linda Frazee (14:11):
Oh, okay. Another one said, well, you know, sometimes I, but, you know it, it, I don't want to go there cause it causes problems. So here was an example of three different places that these three, three men had arrived at just on their own personal, you know, development. And so that takes us back to the family of origin. So I want to I go back to that. So there is a suggested family of origin cause for the nine, as there is for each one of these types. And sometimes that, that fits with you and sometimes it doesn't. But the first of all is there's a genetic predisposition that this little baby nine comes into. They're very, usually very happy babies. They like to sleep, you know, they sleep well. They don't push, you know, they're not screaming, crying kids a lot of the time they're, you know, bubbly, happy and all of that.

Linda Frazee (15:01):
But in the family, there's usually some kind of conflict whether that's overt or covert. So that means that it's either, you know, obviously, maybe mom and dad are arguing or maybe they're not, maybe it's just a quiet cold war. Nobody's talking to somebody. Okay, well, babies are a little barometers and they pick that up. Well, if you know so the little nine child will, will do a number of things once they will be the mediator and be, you know, charming and, and happy and try to make it everybody happy and smile, or they may just try to go below the radar and just be, be very good. And just as I said, sleep all the time and just not cause any problems at all. And so they have begun to learn already how to survive as we all do and get our needs met and find, because when you're a baby, you don't have any, you can't, you know quit your house and go out and live with another family, you know. You're there. And and, and so early, early, early years you can't walk, you can't do anything so you've got to do whatever it takes to make sure your needs are met. Yeah. And the little nine baby is able to do that.

Bill Saroka (16:11):
Interesting. So what is it about anger specifically that, what are they avoiding? Does it go back to conflict?

Linda Frazee (16:19):
Yeah. Well the conflict or the, the energy of it, it, it feels like death to them. It feels like from this, this infant place that, you know this is so scary that I'm going to die. So I'm, and when we, when we take any one of these types and process them backwards, you know, whether we're taking them down back the, the mind types, into the fear or taking the heart types into what would happen, if you didn't get approval, it feels like death. Like I would just die, you know? So therefore, you know, like, so it feels like, you know, and then gets it gets shown up in the world, you know, in these, in these ways that, that, you know, get twisted up. I mean, like if I tell the waitress that I want, I really ordered a grilled cheese, you know, she's going to be mad at me and somebody else might say, so what, you know, you're the customer, you know. Oh, I hadn't thought of that, you know, because she could get upset. So it's a habitual way of being that starts out from a very early age that, that is pervasive and is, it runs on automatic just automatic programming until you recognize it. And then you have the chance of changing it.

Bill Saroka (17:31):
Start shifting it. Yeah. It blows my mind. And I know, know, I think we probably talked about this a little bit during this series, but it is mind blowing to me how often the little four year old or the six year old boy is running the show. Even for me, you know, I'm, I can't even remember how old I am right now. I'm in my forties and I'm still, I have reactions where I stop and I think I'm like, where is that coming from? You know? And it's those decisions I made when I was a child and I'm reacting to it in a similar way now.

Linda Frazee (18:04):
Well, that's absolutely true. And the Enneagram is a very very easy, really, it doesn't seem easy on the surface, but it truly is, it's a, it's a doorway into that understanding and shifting that and pivoting from it. As you know, that, and it doesn't mean that once you've discovered like, oh gosh, now I know I'm doing that. I won't do it anymore. Wouldn't that be nice.

Bill Saroka (18:27):
I wish. Yeah,

Linda Frazee (18:29):
But it it's a beginning and truly once, and this is where you move from average into more health, is the more often you catch yourself in the act of doing this unconscious behaviors, or even just, even if you just say, oh, there I am again, that, that four year old in me is, is, is reacting. And you just, you, you learn to comfort that part of you and then act like an adult, right. And the more you do that, the more often you can do it. And, and then it becomes eventually a new habit.

Bill Saroka (18:59):
Yeah. And I, I got to say, I'm I credit you and our work together for figuring that part out. Because my, you know, my tendency leading with seven is to stuff things or not deal with those things and just kind of push them aside, but learning to comfort that scared it, it's usually fear based. Right? That little boy reaction that comes up comfort that, and still be able to make a different decision has been really powerful in my life.

Linda Frazee (19:27):
Absolutely. Well, you've done a good job with that, Bill. And, and it goes on and, you know, as I said, the more you do it, the, the better able you are until it becomes an automatic habit.

Bill Saroka (19:38):
Yeah. Yeah. And it is totally ongoing. Do you, do you find in your experiences if, do people get frustrated with the Ingram because it is just like this never ending onion where it's just one layer after layer digging in. Do people get frustrated with that? Is that why people just want a quick test versus this kinda work?

Linda Frazee (20:00):
Well, I don't know that it correlates so much to the test, but I think that your, our whole society is immediate gratification. So there's certainly a big segment of the pie that don't want to dig into themselves and, and peel that onion. And so, and somebody else telling them what they are be at a test or someone else just personally say, no, well, I know the Enneagram, so you must be a, a two or four, six, or whatever is, is a relief because they don't want to, they don't want to dig in. However, I think that because of COVID more people are willing to dig in than ever before. And as we said before, the Enneagram now has legs it's never had before. So it's walking all around the world in so many different places that that's a good step. But back to your question. Some people will only get the surface level of the Enneagram and they'll, they'll figure out what type they're leading with, or sometimes it's too much trouble.

Linda Frazee (20:57):
I'd say about one third of, of, of perhaps the people who listen to this podcast will say, that's interesting. I, I don't know. I don't know who I am and it doesn't matter. And that's okay. You know, and they may encountering in another place and about more than a third now are, are intrigued and are really willing to go into it at a deeper level. Yeah. but the truth is you know, it's like that in every aspect of life, you know, again, this, this whole thing about immediate gratification really should, just fall on the foot because so much of life is not immediate gratification. And so we get very frustrated, especially right now with what's going on with COVID again, you know, how many times do we have to go through this and maybe face another shutdown, or, you know, have another, have to take more tests or get another shot or whatever, you know, or, or not get it, and then be a angry about it. And, you know, it just, that's, that's a big change in our society. And that shows up in Enneagram types too. So again, it recalls us all to be, how am I going to be with this to, to respond rather than react and the better, you know, yourself, the less you're going to just react.

Bill Saroka (22:08):
Yeah. Yeah. Well put. It it is such a, it's been such a journey. I remember, you know, Jenny introduced me to you and I think this was 2004 or 2005. and introduced me to the Enneagram. I was one of those I just wanted just a quick, an, just tell me who I am, Linda. And I think I even said that to you in a few of our sessions, just tell me who, what I am so we can move on. And that's just not how this works. So it was frustrating for me, but I'm so grateful that I stuck through it. I read books, I continue to read books. I read the same books over and over again. And it's like reading the same, a new book because I'm in different place. It's like that quote, you never enter the same river twice. It's not the same water. You're not the same person. And I find that to be true with the Enneagram as well.

Linda Frazee (22:59):
Well, and I should say too, that we don't want to set people up to believe this has to be terribly hard, right? There are a classic types. A lot of people just find themselves and it's accurate. And they find themselves very quickly. The more growth you've done, the more spiritual work you've done, if you've ever done counseling or therapy, it actually can be harder because you've been self-correcting for so long. So that genetic predisposition has, you've developed, you know. But that doesn't mean that this genetic predisposition isn't there.

New Speaker (23:32):
Right. Yeah. Great point. Great point. So let's go back to the nines specifically in how they show up in business or entrepreneurialism cause they have their own unique set of challenges.

New Speaker (23:46):
Right. Well, as I mentioned in business and the good news about your Sign And Thrive is the, you have a format basically of what you're supposed to do. And so they would be excellent at that because they, they know they have the instructions. This is what I do, and this is where I have to be. And I have to show up and if they're at least average, they're going to be able to do that and they'll do it over and over and over. And you, and they're so delightful to be with, which is 90% of it, right? Whether you're you sign you're, you're doing a notary service or whatever you're doing, people really enjoy you. And and because they have a demeanor of like, I'm so relaxed and so I'm glad to be with you that relaxes the people they're with.

Linda Frazee (24:29):
So it's an excellent, excellent blend. So I would say nines would be good now good at, at, at Sign And Thrive about many, many things. Now let me talk a little bit more about them. They're called a mediator, the harmonizer, the peacemaker. So again, if a problem comes up, they can keep people calm. They can keep them cool. The, the biggest thing would be that I would imagine if you had a lot of nines who signed up for your program and haven't done it.

Bill Saroka (24:56):
Right. Just their course collectors.

Linda Frazee (24:59):
Yeah. Right. And they have an intention to, and they really say they want to, but all these other things get in the way because of the procrastination. And, and maybe they're valuable things, maybe, maybe they're taking care of kids or they're, you know they have other jobs they're doing that they have to get involved in.

Linda Frazee (25:17):
But a lot of the times, one of the ways that, that nines will soothe this anxiety that many times they don't even know they have, is they like to do little things that they can do quickly while, while they're avoiding the bigger things that are scary. So like, they'd love to go to the grocery store. It's, it's amazing if you like to go to the grocery store and, you know, because that's just, and then you fill up the, you know, the refrigerator and all of that. That's just a nice thing. They like to clean things. They like to clean the stove, you know, this looks and, you know, because it, and it let you get this result right away and it looks great and it's soothing. They like to breathe. They like to watch TV movies. They like movies. And now don't we all, so again, as you're listening, they say, well, how does that track with being a nine?

Linda Frazee (26:01):
Well, it's because of why, what, or why are you doing this? You know you know, you're doing it because as you're avoiding, if you do it too much avoiding the tasks that you're supposed to. So as an entrepreneur not only do you have to buy the course, you have to get yourself to attend the course, to actually do it, and then ask the questions that could be, that could cause conflict. You know, like if let's say you take the class and you have some doubts about, well, how, how do you do this? And I didn't quite get that. And then you want to call Bill and find out, but you think, oh, well, he might not, he, I should know this and I don't want to look stupid. And, and that could cause of conflict. So then you don't ask and then you don't do them. Okay? Or let's say you're nine and you're supposed to be, let's say, you've now become an notary and you're, you're, you're on your way to the signing. And, you know, somehow you get lost or your GPS isn't working or something and, or your phone, you forgot your phone or, you know, some drastic thing. So you don't have GPS in your car and you forgot your phone on, you know, what are you going to do with that? You know? So that would be a really big conflict to a nine.

New Speaker (27:11):
Well, for everybody that's stressful, I'm stressed just hearing that.

Linda Frazee (27:14):
you're right. And so, you know, so again, it's about taking care of yourself before you go. So this is, this takes back. Do I have my phone? Do I have my briefcase? Do I have the directions? Do I have the phone number to call? Do I have, you know, enough gas in the car? Do I have, you know, all these things that are about taking care of you, so you can do your job, those would be important things for an entrepreneur and anybody who's is wanting to do a side business, a side hustle you know, again there's a lot of work involved and I think that for a nine to really make sure that they time block so that they really do the work that they need to do because they could be really good at.

Bill Saroka (27:57):

Linda Frazee (27:58):
Now let me give you another illustration. I think I've mentioned this before that I did a lot of work with the judicial system in Arizona, Maricopa county, and new nine judges who are mediators could see both sides of the situation, which makes them more neutral, which is great. However, that makes it hard for them to make a decision. Mm. So sometimes they would say, well, I will study this and rule on it later. And in their early days would end up with just stacks of files that they had to go in on the weekend and go through. And they see so many people in, in any given period of time that they had to read the whole thing again, to even remember, okay, who was this? And what was the deal? And so I would work with them and helping them make those decisions more quickly so that they did have this backup and that's judges. But I'd say that we all have that kind of thing because, but nines have it more. So once again, you want to look at not just do the, you do this occasionally, but has this been your life long pattern? You know, like gee, I don't know. Do I want to do this? I want to do that. Like kids later enrolling in school or there's, you have to fill out applications and all, you have to send your tests in. You have to, you know, if you want to start college, you've got to go check out some colleges. You've got to do a lot of things. And a nine kid just never gets, you know, just doesn't do that stuff to get, even if foot in the door. I mean, again, these are could be exaggerations, but if you're a parent that you're listening to this, I'm thinking, gee, I think my kid's a nine. Don't tell him you think, or her that he think they're a nine because that's immediately insulting and they will not be understood in the Enneagram. But what you can do is knowing this and very gently kind of work with them to make sure that they get these things done. That's another thing nines love to be in partnership. So, you know, they, they like to work with, on teams. They make really good team, team players and they will work really well with others.

Bill Saroka (29:58):
So in that example that you're just talking about with a parent help, maybe guiding through the steps to apply for financial aid and college and all of those re, insane amount of steps you have to do that could be applied to business too. Right? You have to register for a business license. You have to get your domain that you have to do all these little things. So, right. What is what a framework that helps a nine get stuff done?

Linda Frazee (30:24):
Well, the first thing is one I've mentioned already is timing, you know, because you know, so it's about recognizing that, look, my tendency is to procrastinate. So I'm, I'm going to find the time of day. That's best for you. Some people are morning people and they wake up and they want to get right on it. Some people are not, some people, you know, wake up and they're drowsy and they got to have three cups of coffee before they even want to talk to anybody. And, and their bio rhythms are higher at night. So figure out which time you have the most energy and then absolutely make an agreement with yourself. You're going to do those steps that you need to now. Unfortunately, if you're a night person, you know, a lot of the places you might have to apply to for business license and so forth. Now it's probably all online, but there may be some, some some things you'd have to do about that, you know, to make sure you get it done.

Bill Saroka (31:13):
Hours and stuff.

Linda Frazee (31:13):
Yeah. You know? Right. But whatever you do, then set that time and then set it aside and protect it and don't let yourself off the hook. So that's the first thing. And no, all those things that come up that do, are just so much more appealing, you know, that would be so much more fun. Like your friend drops in and says, hey, you want to go over and have some coffee? Well, sure. I do. No, I, I made this agreement. Can you give me, you know, I'll meet you there in half an hour, I'll meet you there an hour, you know, learning those kind of techniques. Also the other thing is, cause nines can see both sides of the question or the situation. Oftentimes they don't know what they want. So you know, if somebody's looking at a side hustle, there's all these options, right.

Linda Frazee (31:54):
And they all look good, you know, and which one am I best with? And so that could be a place that they could hang out in for a long time investigating each one of them. Nine sometimes have a habit and my husband had this, but I'm not saying that this is every nine, of getting ready. That there's a lot of work about getting ready. I mean, you got to clean your desk before you can work. You got to do this. You got to, you know, you need a new printer, you got to go get a new printer. You got to do. And it's all about, and that may be true. You need these things, but that's just, before you get to the starting gate, you still have to go through the gate.

Bill Saroka (32:29):
Yeah. Yeah. I hear that a lot actually. Yeah. I think we have a lot of nines listening.

Linda Frazee (32:35):
Yeah. Well And there, and you know, there's, there's actually it's a suggestion. There are more nines and twos than there are any other types of the Enneagram. Now I dunno if that that's been statistically validated you know, on an, on a, you know, international level. So, but that's been suggested and that's because their worker bees and we need worker bees. We need people who come to work and do what they're supposed to do and make sure that everything goes well. And that is not a criticism at all. It's, it's a, it's a important aspect of our society.

Bill Saroka (33:08):
Yeah. And on those, on that same note where my head goes, when I hear you talking about time blocking from a nine's perspective, do they work well with to-do list? Like block this amount of time you're going to do this and then block this amount of time. You're going to do that and work your way up, or is that not a…..

Linda Frazee (33:26):
Well, again, it depends on their level of development, but they're also very likely to lose the list because one of the things that, and we, when again, we all do, but nines have a, a, a really strong preference to losing lists and that's because they're not always in their bodies. And I'm that, that's a good question. So I'm going to, so I would say that unhealthy nines know that, you know, they, if they made a list, they'd lose a list, an average nine would probably, I always tell people don't, don't put more than five things down on the list and don't add anymore until you've done. them. And sometimes with a nine I'll only start with three, because you need to have the sense of satisfaction of having done them. Right. and so average nine will, will make a short list and, and get it done and work on it.

Linda Frazee (34:13):
And a healthy nine will just work at it and do what they need to do, you know? So there's a difference there. So but a, I do think we need to talk a little bit more about several of the things that get in the way for the nine and how, and, and some of the, the great strengths that they have. Yeah. And as I said, they're really good to be around. They're great workers for somebody else. So again, I don't want people listening saying, gee, it sounds like I'm just this lazy, the person who never does anything, nines will be the best workers that you could ever find once they figure out what they're supposed to do, or somebody else tells them what to do. But the, the challenge for them is with their own personal agendas. So you know, when you come home and this is an illustration, I often give, let's say it's outer day and this nine weeks up and thinks, oh, I've got to get my prescription.

Linda Frazee (35:04):
And that pharmacy closes at noon. And I got to pay that bill, or I'm going to have to pay a late charge. Yeah. So I'm going to get up and I'm going to do that, but they get up and they, they have coffee and then they're watching the news and then they decide to go out and pull a few weeds in the garden. And then a friend calls and says, hey, I'm over here at Starbucks and you want to come over and, and have a cup of coffee for sure.

Linda Frazee (35:25):
So they go over and have a cup of coffee. And he says, you know, there's a car show down the street up and down. You want to go that? Absolutely. And and then after that, he says, you know, there's this new movie out that I was thinking about, do you want to? Sure. They go, so the nine gets home at five or six o'clock in the afternoon, didn't get the prescription. Didn't, didn't pay the bill. Right. Unless say there was some sort of deadline, it had to be paid by noon or whatever, and, and just goes, oh, well, that's what happened. . And so again, can't, we all do that sometimes, of course. But if this is a lifelong habit, it's the personal agenda that doesn't get attended to.

Bill Saroka (36:07):
So that plays into owning a business too, and being a solopreneur. Cause that's a personal agenda, right?

Linda Frazee (36:14):
Yes. And, and nine's can be big dreamers. Whereas Bill is a seven has told you about all his businesses that he had, that he, he created a business. He just didn't follow up, but he created it. The nine creates it in their mind and it's kinda a dreaming of it. And that would be a good thing. But then when it comes to taking the action, that's why the personal development from a below average, let's say to a, an average, at least means that you are now able to take action for yourself. So here, and let's say a nine is working in an assembly line doing the same thing over and over and over. And they're really good and they make good money, but they're, they don't like it. And they, they have dreams every day of what they would like to be doing and they buy these programs and they they're going to do it.

Linda Frazee (36:57):
And they're going to, then they maybe watch some of it, but then they don't follow through. And that's where the action is really important. Yeah. So the actual strength of the nine is called, right action. So it's interesting because the, the challenge is procrastination. The challenge is lassitude, not really getting on task for yourself and the healing is called right action. Now it isn't like right by somebody else's standard, it's right action for themselves, which may be not just looking at the class, but really doing it, or once they've gotten through and they've gotten through the class now it's actually showing up and really just for themselves, you know. Again, they show up for work where somebody says, okay, here's your, your, your agenda. I do this and this. Good, good, good. They're on it. Being able to do that for themselves.

Bill Saroka (37:54):
That's huge. And that's the implementation or the execution part of the plan. And I think if there's nines listening, I mean, when you think about from a personality perspective, Linda, the the nines for a relationship based business really have what it takes here. When they're sitting down one on one, or even in a a small group, they have the, almost the diplomatic nature to really move things forward and make a make a client feel good. They're ideal for, like, you talked about our mobile notary and loan signing agent maybe even wedding efficient, anybody who's one on one with these customers. So it would really serve to you've got the hardest part, the relationship part down like that. That's part of who you are. And then just to implement the action, to get the business going, it'd be so worth it.

Linda Frazee (38:49):
Absolutely. That is really a good point because they are so able to be with people and calm people and you know, any kind of sales sales, where they're really you know, can be with people and just, they can beat them where they're at. And that's that's not an easy skill to learn. Yeah. You know, and a lot of people can learn it, but they really think they're hiding their irritation when it's not really all that well hidden, but nine, nine can actually do it. And I've got some interesting quotes too, about this you know, this, this was just the, the good old anonymous person. I always think it should be a Bett Midler, but I don't think she's a nine. To be honest, I am just wing it, my life, my eyeliner, everything. .

Bill Saroka (39:35):
That's great.  

Linda Frazee (39:37):
And so a nine kind of feels like that. It's like, okay, I'm just kind of going along with everything and I'm not even sure I can do this. And one of the other things that Robert Sayer said is learning to ignore things is one of the greatest paths to inner peace mm-hmm . So the nine who can ignore the fact that something isn't, you know, isn't worried so much about things being just right or whatever, and can say, okay, well, let's just go on with, this is really great.

Bill Saroka (40:07):
Do you find that nines don't take things as personally as maybe some of the other numbers?

Linda Frazee (40:13):
That yes. Yes, I would say that. But, and there's two other interesting things about them because they, they don't stand on their own agenda and they go along to get along so often about well, in my husband's case about two or maybe three times a year there, all of these accumulated going along would begin to accumulate and sudden there would be, no, I don't want to do that. And it would usually be over something that didn't matter at all, you know, like, do you want to use this coffee cup? No, I don't want that. It would be this very strong reaction about something that, that, you know, okay, fine, have this other one, you know, so but it would be about it's because of this, this I've given up myself so many times that finally I'm taking a stand on this, but I usually will, will start practicing with smaller things that really don't matter.

Linda Frazee (41:10):
So I don't, there's not a lot of risk involved, but it has to come out. Right. It also is nines have been my teacher,, David Daniels, who is now passed on was a brilliant man. And he used to say, he felt like the nines were the, the strongest type of all on the Enneagram. And that's because when they get stubborn, they won't move. Yeah. They don't get stubborn very often. Like maybe, I mean, really stubborn twice a year, maybe, maybe once a year. I mean, this is not like everyday thing, but once they say, Nope, I'm not going to do that. I won't do that. If you live with a nine and you, and you recognize that, there you go, okay. You just don't even go there because.

Bill Saroka (41:52):
There's no moving.

Linda Frazee (41:53):
There's no movement. Yeah. And and so again, the healthier they are, the more able they are on an everyday basis to say what they want and what they don't want. And so therefore that stubbornness isn't the strongest characteristic. But if if, very often a nine will go in relationship with a more dominant type And so, you know, and that's fine because it makes a good, a good couple, but after a while that nine is going to stand up on their own two hind feet and really take a strong stand.

Bill Saroka (42:27):
Right. As they should.

Linda Frazee (42:30):
Yes, yes.

Bill Saroka (42:31):
Yeah. Yeah. What other quotes, do you have for us on the, on the nine?

Linda Frazee (42:36):
Well, one of the ones that I like that is a good way for us to end is that a nine wants to create a life that doesn't need, they don't need a vacation from,

Bill Saroka (42:48):
Oh, I love that's one of my favorite quotes.

Linda Frazee (42:52):
Yes. So I, that you create a day because the nine's, another wonderful thing they can do is they can relax. They can, they can chill out and watch a movie and relax, you know, and say, oh, this is just too much. I've got to just, you know, I got to go lay in a hammock. I got to, you know, I just go take a walk, you know, and just let me change my mind, you know? And, and they're really at that. And we can all learn something from them about that.

Bill Saroka (43:18):
Totally. Yeah. Beautiful way to end. Any final thoughts on the nine pitfalls, entrepreneurialis?,

Linda Frazee (43:28):
I think anybody listening, who's identifying with this will identify somewhat with the pitfalls. But you may not have been aware about how, how your harmonious and diplomatic attitude is, what Bill has said is, is a personality, a plus. I mean, it is just really, it's your own natural superpower that you're walking around caring. And so just by learning and practicing to take action, more appropriate action in a reasonable amount of time, you've got the best of both worlds.

Bill Saroka (44:01):
Yeah, totally. I totally agree. And I find their personalities to be somewhat magnetic as well. Right. I know the sevens get a lot of credit for that, but the nines too, they're just easy to be around their fun to be a around those nines.

Linda Frazee (44:17):
Right. And in my husband's case I'll end with a quick story on that. He had some very powerful jobs. He worked for Goddard NASA. He worked on the Hubble telescope with the solar arrays. He taught a lot of the scientists there, computer skills. He was just a, really a very well versed and brilliant man. And yet, so when we moved to Arizona and he retired, he needed to get a part-time job. And so I'm, I'm watching, I'm thinking, he's going to go get a, a resume out there and he's going to, well, he doesn't. Yeah. He, you know, eventually he did type up a more current resume, but he didn't really do anything about it. So one day there was a water leak on the other side of the wall behind our house. And he, the, and the people were that owned the house were on vacation.

Linda Frazee (45:04):
So he had to call the homeowner's association to yeah, have somebody come over and try to fix it. The guy came over and he's my husband's on one side of the wall of guys on the other. And he says, well, this looks like an interesting job. And he said, are you ever guys or hire people? He says, yes. As a matter of fact, we want to, we're looking for somebody right now. He said, wait a minute, ran upstairs, got his resume, came down, handed it over the wall. The next day they called and he had a job. Wow. And I, and then I realized the job he had at Goddard NASA was because a friend he'd worked with liked him so much had called him and said, I've got the guy that's perfect for this job. Yeah. And so they, I mean, you remember, I mean, it's so nice to work with somebody who's easy. Who's you know, got a smile on their face most of the time and is really willing to help you out with things and all. And so every job he got, he you know, it was just somebody called him in and wanted him there.

Bill Saroka (45:58):
Yeah. From his own network. A lot of times it sounds like absolutely. Yeah. What a great tribute to Richard and his personality and a perfect demonstration of how life can really work too. People with who they know like, and trust and the nines have that gift of connection and easygoingness

Linda Frazee (46:20):
Right. People like absolutely. And and it works.

Bill Saroka (46:24):
Linda, thank you so much for joining us again, sharing more about Richard and the number nine on the Enneagram. For those listening, if you want to dive in deeper, you can visit If you're having a hard time spelling that that's okay, we make it easy at the in the VIP room. I've got all the information for Linda's website, the links you can learn, read about. You can listen to all of the, these episodes right there on her website, as well as reading about the different numbers of the Enneagram. Linda, thank you so much.

Linda Frazee (47:00):
Thank you, Bill.

Bill Saroka (47:02):
Thank you so much for listening to the Side Hustle Lounge podcast. You know, if you follow me on Instagram and social media, you already know that my pets play a huge role in my life. And I include them as part of the family. They are part of my why. Dexter and Violet bring so much joy and love into my life that I always want to make sure that they are well tended to and healthy. That's where my Toto Pet Insurance policy comes in. Toto was voted best pet insurance company in 2021 by Forbes advisor. And it's known as the pet insurance company with a heart and without the gotchas. There's no network of obscure vets that I'm forced to choose from. So I get to pick my pet doctor, and then depending on the policy I select, I can be reimbursed up to 90% of the vet bill and they make it easy to use. You visit any vet. You submit a claim, you get cash back. It's pet insurance finally done right? If you'd like to support the show get coverage for your own fur babies, and maybe even give yourself some peace of mind at the same time, get an instant quote today on Toto's easy to use website at That's T O T.

Bill Saroka (48:29):

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