Bonus Episode: Pitfalls in Business by the Enneagram Numbers - THE SEVEN


The "Enthusiasts," or number seven on the Enneagram, see opportunity everywhere. They are adventurous and fun on the outside, but often avoid some of the deeper "negative" emotions. This can make them appear insensitive, flaky, and addictive. They're always up for something new, but when unhealthy, they may suffer "shiny object syndrome" and fail to follow through on commitments.

Guest Information:

Linda Frazee has over 40 years of experience as a professional speaker, business consultant and executive coach. She is the author, "Full Heart Satisfied Belly," and is founder of Positive Imagery, Inc., a personal and professional development company located in Scottsdale, AZ. Her professional training is in Transpersonal Psychology and Imagery.

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Episode Highlights:

20:49 The seven has an insatiable quest for new ideas, experiences, options, possibilities, and excessive planning. But a quote for the seven is: over planning kills magic.

24:27 Allow yourself to be in the moment. This is one of the beauties of the seven, when they're genuinely in the moment, just bouncing from one thing to the other, without any guilt.

46:05 Hemingway said that when you stop doing things for fun, you might as well be dead. A strength of the seven - they have fun.

--- Full Raw Transcription Below ---

Linda Frazee (00:00):

If you feel like you might be a seven, there are three suggestions here: stop leaving, and you will arrive. Stop searching, and you will find. Stop running away, and you will be found.

Introduction (00:16):

Welcome to the Side Hustle Lounge. If you're looking for flexible ways to earn income, grow your mindset, and live the lifestyle you've always dreamed of, you are in the right place. So lower the lights. Grab your favorite beverage, and join your host, founder of and Amazon bestselling author of “Sign and Thrive: How To Make Six Figures As A Mobile Notary And Loan Signing Agent,” Bill Soroka.

Bill Soroka (00:50):

Cheer and welcome back to the Side Hustle Lounge with my guest, Linda Frazee, Linda, it's such a pleasure to have me back here. Linda is business coach and personal coach over the last 40 years that has used the Enneagram to help change lives. And today we're continuing our series. We're talking about the number seven on the Enneagram. Linda. Welcome. Thank you so much for all the time you're committing to us.

Linda Frazee (01:19):

Well, it's nice to be here again, Bill. And of course that's your number. So those of you who, who know Bill or who are so the best one will now hear all about him. So

Bill Soroka (01:31):

oh, uhoh but this is the best number, right? Linda? No,

Linda Frazee (01:35):

No, no, there isn't a best number. I think, I think that's an important thing to say. We've never said that there's one, not one number is really better than another, but, but many times people think the sevens are the best. So we're, we're gonna get rid of that myth today.  

Bill Soroka (01:51):

So there's not a number that's better than anyone except for this one. Right? Linda.

Linda Frazee (01:56):

Yeah. Well, that's what he thinks. Now. Everybody listen closely.  

Bill Soroka (02:00):

That is so true. And I love that you distinguished that because I think as people learn about the Enneagram there are some features of the seven that makes it attractive and makes it look like everybody would wanna be that. But speaking from experience guys there's, there is a shadow side to even the seven, even the light of the seven. So there is no 'best' number. This is all about embracing who you are and knowing your strengths and balancing that out. So, Linda I, I'm so excited to dive in and learn more about myself plus so many other sevens that I've come into my life. Tell us something interesting. We've been kicking off every episode with something - an interesting fact about the Enneagram. What do you have for us today?

Linda Frazee (02:44):

Well we haven't gotten through all of them, but we're, we're getting there. This is seven. And then after that, there's just two more. So the interesting fact I bring to you today is that there are three types on the Enneagram three out of nine. The, the way they deal with life, they move forward and toward it, there are three types that move away. Hmm. And there are three types that move against. So which type do you think, what do you think you do so well, I,

Bill Soroka (03:15):

I definitely run away from it, I think.

Linda Frazee (03:18):

Well, we'll see how that I'll explain that more as we get more seven, but it's an interesting thought. I brought that to my online community recently and even though these people had studied it for a long time, they quite, hadn't heard that before and it's brought up a lot of interesting ideas. So let's start out with this seven who has called the, the adventure the visionary. And they're always got bright ideas. Now, sometimes there are some people who think all sevens are ADD or ADHD, however, that's not always the case. They can. But the one, one of the reasons they look like that is of the, the velocity of thoughts that run through their minds at any time now all of us have that. So you could say, well, yeah, but what what's the different about that, but really the word, the key here is velocity because I mean, the ideas are coming through in a mad dash back and forth, back and forth at all times.

Linda Frazee (04:19):

And therefore again, that looks pretty a ADD or ADHD because they're going in one direction and suddenly they're going another, they're interrupting themselves, they're interrupting you, they're telling you something. And they're, they often talk fast too, even faster than I'm talking now. We we've talked a little bit about these three centers of intelligence and the seven in the mental, or sometimes called the head center. And it's also is known for its fear. And that's a very interesting fact about the sevens right there, because most of the time, if you see a seven, you would never get that really what was run in the show underneath all of that was fear because it doesn't show up. It doesn't show up like quivering and shaking and indecision or whatever. And that's because they disguise it so well by distraction and gluttony of activities, especially travel. So can you talk to us a little about that Bill?

Bill Soroka (05:15):

I Feel seen!

Linda Frazee (05:21):

Well good. I hope it's not, you know, like I pulled off the tarp or something.

Bill Soroka (05:26):

I surprised. Yeah. yeah. Absolutely. relatable. So for me too, and I love how you describe this. So there's healthy ways of handling it in unhealthy ways. But when I was I think, think I just, I have done it with travel and then I've also done it with businesses. You know, I just distract myself with one, one thing after after another, that way, or when I'm on trips, I'm often planning another trip, you know? Cause I'm constantly, I feel like I'm constantly avoiding discomfort when I'm in my unhealthiest place.

Linda Frazee (06:05):

Mm-Hmm right. Yeah. And that's, that's the fear. See the fear is of discomfort because the whole idea for the seven is like the desire, the core value thats running, everything is being unlimited and free, free to do whatever I want to whenever I want to, which could be taken a nap. It doesn't have to be running around, but it's free to do what you wanna do. And I'm saying you because of Bill, but it, you, if, if you're listening, if this is, is landing for you, this is something to think about. So again, don't, we all want to be free and unlimited everybody dreams of winning the lottery and you know, being able to do whatever they wanna do every day. It's how much of the time does that really run you? And that's when it comes down to the Enneagram and you're looking at which type am I, it's not like just jumping on one kind of aspect and going, oh, I must be a seven or I must be a four because I sometimes have feeling, or I sometimes distract myself.

Linda Frazee (06:59):

It's about your whole life history. How have you done this throughout your whole life? And that's quite a, an undertaking to sit back and really ask yourself and really look at that. So again, and to get to this fear of the seven, it's the fear of being caught, trapped, not being able to do what you wanna do. Somebody telling you what to do. That's a big one, boy don't like that. And so and then there's this, the gluttony is of course, what would the traditional sense would be the vice or what I would call the sticking point, which is if one is good, a lot would be better. And it does not have to be with food many times it is with food, but it doesn't have to be, it's mostly with adventure with new exciting things. Like what Bill just said, like businesses or the new idea because of all those ideas floating through. So since we have Bill here today, tell us some more about how that shows up for you beyond what you've said so far.

Bill Soroka (07:55):

Well, for me, what it feels like is novelty. I just love new, new experiences, new not necessarily things, but new experiences, new ideas I love. And I'm also simultaneously overwhelmed by how many different ideas comes, how many connections, how many interesting people there are in the world, you know, like that, those types of that newness mm-hmm of things really attractive to me. And it also, like I said, it totally overwhelms me. So I, I tend to take on, I bite off way more than I can chew on a regular basis. You've been working with me for so long and that's a continual pattern, you know, I get, and I love how you just said that if one is great, then many must be better. So I just filled my plate with that. And then it was like, oh my gosh, you know, I've taken on way too much. Yeah. Well, let's

Linda Frazee (08:47):

Talk a little bit about that, cuz I remember in the early days you used to say yes to every party whatever get together there was. And so tell, tell 'em about how that came out.

Bill Soroka (08:57):

Yeah. In my early twenties I did, I was the, I was the guy who said yes to everything. I could be the life of the parties if I chose to show up. But what happens is I would say yes to everything and then show up to none or just show up to one every now and then, and then this constant teetering back and forth between wanting to experience everything and then facing the reality that it's just not possible to experience everything all at the same time. Right.

Linda Frazee (09:27):

I, I know a seven woman who in college took two classes at the same time because she was that's the exact same time and day. Cause she was very interested and she signed up for both of them. And I, I don't know that they could do this in this day and age because probably a computer would kick it out. But somehow she managed to do this. Didn't even give it a second thought because she she went each time. She went once to each class to find a friend, to made friends with somebody and, and, and, and got an agreement it from them to share their notes. So she would go back and forth and get notes every day. And that's how she managed two classes at the same time.

Bill Soroka (10:02):

See how innovative that is.

Linda Frazee (10:03):

Right. It's innovative. I don't think the professors were too delighted about it, but she managed to pass the class. And so I see the normal way that someone might think about it. Well, I can't do that. I can't be in two places at one time. She's going okay. Sure. Why not? Let's we're gonna find a way. Yeah. Yeah, we did. So so, so this sounds so enticing and so wonderful because this is again wouldn't we all like to seem to have the energy that the seven has and all these great ideas and all this energy to jump from one thing and create these new ideas. But as, as Bill said, there is a shadow sign because what the seven is doing is avoiding the fear, fear of, of being stuck and fear of anything unpleasant or difficult. And of course we do have difficult things that come up in life.

Linda Frazee (10:55):

I mean, very seldom doesn't anybody managed to be born, live and die, if they live a re reasonably good life lifespan without having to face some difficulties, you know, even, and as a kid, it's usually an animal that dies or a grandparent or a disappointment, or the family gets divorced or they get they move or whatever. And there's got to be, you know, an in a normal situation, the kid gets depressed, they cry. You know, they're sued they're depending on how functional the family is, there's some dealing with it. But as a, as a little seven, that's not a place you wanna go. So there's usually some family of origin factors along with this too. And the suggestion is, even though this is not always the case, that there was some member of the family who was pretty fearful, was naturally fearful or angry. And so the child decided I am not gonna be like that. That is not how I wanna be. And so there's a, there's a sort of a reverse modeling, you know, I'm, I'm not gonna do that if they're like that, I'm going the other way. So does that ring true for you, Bill?

Bill Soroka (12:01):

That's fascinating. So, yeah, absolutely. I had a, a father who was, he was his, he would go to anger. That was the emotion. He felt he was pretty even keel until he wasn't. And then he was, he would go to anger and it was loud and ruined, you know, so many camping trips and and fun moments for me as a kid. So I can totally, I can absolutely see where that would've happened.

Linda Frazee (12:29):

Right. And so what, and, and children are so bright and their psyches are just in development. And, and again, the, the bottom line of everything is what do I have to do to get my needs met? And the primary need is of course food and shelter, but even beyond that is to feel love connected and, and have someone take care of you because when you're a kid, you can't just go take care of yourself. So for the seven, when there's, and like Bill is talking about this angry outburst or somebody being afraid, it's like, okay, what do I have to do to make this right? So we have some adaptive behavior and there's lots of ways to do that. And so let's, let's just not stay in those unpleasant feelings for any length of time. Let's move on quick. You know, there's always those you know, silver lining to everything, you know, no matter what.

Linda Frazee (13:15):

So they said, well, somebody died well. Yeah. But you know, they weren't very happy or, you know, silver lining. Yeah. Well, this is the world. Isn't a very safe place now. And, you know, that's very upsetting. Maybe some of you've had that, you know, said that to a seven like, oh, well, you know, a lot of things are going on in the world right now. It's probably just as well, they got off, you know, you're going, what, you know, but there's a seven, the, the, the silver line that, that they're trying to get at. And so of course the healing for the seven is being able to stay with their feelings. So I've got a couple of examples of that. I had a woman who was learning this, that she was a seven and gee this and 30 years ago or more, and how she should be with it.

Linda Frazee (13:58):

And she was trying to get a job at the time. She was highly degreed as a scientist of some kind, this was out in Washington DC. And she kept getting turndowns, you know, she'd get these letters in the mail, say, no, you can't. And so she'd get all excited about the job and then it would come. So she said to me with great pride on a letter, and I was turned out again, and I just sat with those feelings. I said, good, how long did you sit with them? She said, five minutes. so proud. And I said, Hey, that's a good start. So said, why, why would I do that horror? She was this was a live event where everybody saw this and it was so, so one of the best teachings that ever happened, because she was very, just horrified at the fact that, that I would expect her to have these feelings for 10 minutes, you know? Like, so what comes up for you when hear that Bill?

Bill Soroka (14:51):

Yeah, I can relate so well. And this was one of our, you know as we were working together, I really struggled with this and you were so patient, but I, I was just so disconnected from those feelings, especially anger, like anger was, is the one that I still, you know, I'm, I feel disconnected from, but all of those, I would just either feel it and move on. I think you, you have a name for that too, where I'm just like, I hop, I skipped right over it and I'm right into something fine. I'm like, oh, there's a silver lining here. Oh, I'm glad that business failed. Now I can do this one, you know, and I can focus on this one. I'm glad relationship ended is now I can focus on this one, move on, just keep moving on the next one. And I think

Linda Frazee (15:40):

Leap leapfrogging is what the word is of

Bill Soroka (15:42):

Yes. Is it emotional leapfrogging or spiritual leapfrogging, or just leapfrogging

Linda Frazee (15:47):

Both basically, because the, you know, it's just staying away. Let's get out of that feeling as soon as possible. And it doesn't allow the spiritual growth. It comes from the sense of just being whole and your spiritual self is not just this glowing, divine presence that doesn't ever have any feelings. And it it's like the whole body experience. And, and it in it also has feelings. It's like the,

Bill Soroka (16:13):

Yeah, exactly. And that's, there's two things that I, I, I really learned from this is that, and you, you continue to drive this home for me is when it comes to emotions and feelings, you either gotta feel 'em now, or you're gonna feel 'em later, you know, they're, they don't go away anywhere until you've processed them, deal with them. They just show up and do different ways down the road. Mm-Hmm . And what I've learned is I'd much rather deal with them at the moment, at the time, because how they fester and where they come out is the bizarre. Oh, exactly. But the other thing that I think the real value, the, I mean, besides being able to be okay with myself now, like I love sitting with my emotions now, now I love being able to write about my emotions now, and it's constant works, right?

Bill Soroka (16:57):

Like, I am not there , I'm not, not that there's anywhere to be there, but I'm not there yet Uhhuh. But the biggest thing I noticed is that when I'm not dealing with my own emotions, I'm trying to skip over 'em. I am like intolerant of other people going through stuff. So I took that away. And then I'm that insensitive friend that just wants to skip over and not give people the time and space. They need to deal with their emotions. Mm-Hmm . And I think that was a huge disservice as I was growing up. And I'm grateful now to have some awareness about that now it's still, again, a work in progress risk, but I, I like being able to give people space to feel what they need to feel. Right.

Linda Frazee (17:39):

And that's, that's a really good tip. Anyway. It's like the mirror, because it's a mirror of fact because the projection, you know, so if somebody else is in there having a difficult day and you go, oh, well, I'm not up for this. You know, I gotta get outta here as quick as possible, which is a natural seven tendency, you know? Yeah. That's, what's happening is that's vibrating energy in you, that's sad or upset or angry or whatever. And so, I mean, so that's why, and then you're running, but you're only running you, you run, but you carry your feelings with you. There's no escape from us. Right. And so then, you know, and, and ultimately, which I know you have been known to do this, it, it gets so much that you have to just, you know, sequester yourself off and go away completely by yourself.

Linda Frazee (18:29):

Yeah. Because then it turns out that all that energy in there is just everywhere. Every time place you look, everybody is doing it wrong. Everybody is angry. Everybody is sad. You know, what am I gonna do is, so you have to go away just to contain those feelings. Yeah. That's my full retreat. Yeah. And that is also a move from seven to five, for those of who been listening to the whole series, we have already talked about the five and there is a connection between the seven and the five. And at the end of this whole series, we'll go back and just touch on the whole system as a whole. So you can kind of get how that all comes together. And and many of you have already done some of that. I also, before we go on too far, I wanna make sure I to get some of the other key points about the seven.

Linda Frazee (19:13):

So this thing we're talking about the life strategy and focusing on the good and pleasurable things in life and putting a positive spin on what is perceived as painful. We've got that. But also there's this thing about keeping your options open and that's what Bill was doing with all those parties that he said he would go you, which is, you know, a, a really rather lighthearted sort of thing. Even though there may have been a consequence with their friend relationships, but let's say you're trying to get a job and you've got lots of offers and you're trying to keep your options open. And that could be a problem because you're trying to, you have all these balls in the air. And, and then because of the way that his seven tends to pay attention, it's very likely some of those are gonna get dropped.

Linda Frazee (19:57):

So that's, that's something to, you know, and again, we all like to have our options, not everybody a five would just assume have very clear options, one option and stay with it. so, and I'm not picking on fives because I'm using them as a, as a contrast here. So you know, and if we're upset, that's the other thing, if any of us are upset, our options shrink for most people, but for a seven, if a seven's upset the options, there's gotta be more options. So some of the strengths for seven is they're highly optimistic. They're visionary, they're inner, they're versatile. They're very spontaneous, enthusiastic, charming, innovative, lighthearted friendly. And so that just is really a draw to them.

Bill Soroka (20:42):

I'm not seeing the downside here, Linda.

Linda Frazee (20:44):

Yeah. Right? Yeah. well, the sticking point is (inaudible). Yeah. But insatiable quest for new ideas, experiences, options, possibilities, and excessive planning. And one of the one of the quotes I'm bringing you today for the seven is overplanning kills magic.

Bill Soroka (21:06):

Oh, that's good. Good. And isn't that true!

Linda Frazee (21:08):

Yeah. I mean, you know, so I remember friend of mine who is a seven, was gonna go to Disneyland with her daughter-in-law and the grandchildren and the daughter-in-law called her. And this is like, like a year ahead. They're gonna go. And she's wanting to get every, she had every minute planned. You, like, we're gonna go to that ride and then we're gonna go, and this is where we're having lunch that day. And, and then we're gonna go to that and then we're gonna do this and my seven friend was going, I don't even wanna go, you know, and her daughter-in-law was a one, a very perfectionistic trying to get everything in control. And so that's an example of, you know, overplanning that kills the magic here you are in Disneyland, you know, supposed to be spontaneous and all this. And it's like, chop, chop, chop, we're going for one thing to the other. Right. So as I remember, my friend didn't even go on that trip. She just decided the last minute, this does not sound like a good time to me.

Bill Soroka (22:06):

Yeah. That sounds terrible. Yeah.

Linda Frazee (22:07):

Yes. So the challenges, the challenge for this type is what gets blocked is the acceptance of all of life, including the negatives. So maybe even in this case, it might have been a the one, I just mentioned a better idea for the woman to go and, you know, and experience what that was like to have something. So, so regimen and TA, just to see what it was like, Bill is, I have to remind him to breathe at this point. ,

Bill Soroka (22:36):

I'm like, I'm not sure if I wanna experience that or not, but I, I can kinda, I can appreciate not having to worry about anything, not having to think about not having think decisions. Like I think there might be a there, but I can find a gift everywhere. Mm-Hmm so I can find that silver lighting in everywhere. Yes.

Linda Frazee (22:53):

You can find a gift everywhere. And so that's, that's why so many people wanna be sevens when they see it. So, well, that sounds like a good one. How do I get the B a seven? Well, in fact, you can, I can give you some ideas how you can practice that if you're someone who is over controlling and are planning and really wanting to feel, which is about safety, you know, we think it's about saving money, being practical, being logical, but it's really about safety because, you know, so fear is kind of running underneath there. So give yourself an hour every now and then to act like a seven, what would a seven, do you know? You might have to set some limits because maybe, maybe your seven would gamble or eat everything in the house or start drinking at nine o'clock in the morning or something that you really didn't wanna do, but, but you could say, well, what does seven do now?

Linda Frazee (23:45):

You might say, well, I'm a glass of wine for lunch. Okay. Okay. That's probably, unless you're driving a long distance or you're, you're taking care of a child or something that would probably be an okay thing. Or you might I actually do this myself and it's, and I love it. I'm a four, but I love to practice this. So I, I go in and I click some papers up and I don't finish it. And then I go someplace else and I do something else. And then I go and put a lot of wash in and then I go look at the flowers outside, you know, I just let myself be allowed to go from one thing to another, just spontaneously, what do I wanna do now?

Bill Soroka (24:20):

Are you saying that now everybody does that.

Linda Frazee (24:22):

Yeah. I am saying that I'm even saying to these people, that that would be a good idea to practice this. If you're not a seven for certain amounts of time, because it's just allowing yourself to be in the moment. This is one of the beauties of the seven, when they're genuinely in the moment, just bouncing from one thing to the other, without any guilt. Now, see, that's the big deal here. Now. Here's an important part though. The seven has a connection to one, that's a perfectionist. And if that's not developed over time, it makes it very difficult to go back to those projects that I was just suggesting and finish them. So then you have a half finished of this and a half finished of that. And the is a mess and you were starting to pull weeds, but then you stopped and now the weeds have grown over the ones you were pulling, you know? And so every, and then, and then you're overwhelmed. Right. So can you relate to that in your early years Bill?

Bill Soroka (25:19):

Oh yeah. In my early years, for sure. In fact, there's countless projects, businesses, book ideas, you know relationships, all kinds of things that were left behind and through other distractions just got buried under things. If I go through my old journals, I have countless examples of those types of things. But I love that you brought up that connection to one, because I think that's where, you know, when the, I ran into the miracle morning, I think that just, it, it helped like blast through to the one for me, Uhhuh and make that connection. And then just start adapting a little bit of framework. You know, I don't like to use the word. I don't know how habits and routine a lot. I didn't, well, I resisted that my entire life. Obviously it makes sense now mm-hmm but that embracing that is those steps to take, to keep me on track and keep me moving forward on a particular project till it finished change my entire life. Right.

Linda Frazee (26:25):

And so that's, that's important. So tell them about Miracle Morning because maybe some people listening won't know what that is.

Bill Soroka (26:32):

Yeah. well, the Miracle Morning was written is a book written by Hal Elrod. And it talks about just a foundational morning power routine made of six different principles, meditation affirmation, visualization, exercise, reading, something inspirational and journaling or scribing as he put, those are the savers. And that just gave me the peace of mind AF over a few months to really ground myself and get clear. And then I created my own morning routine that I called my daily dues that was focused on my business just to help move me forward. And I've implemented all of that through publishing two books, you know, starting several businesses and that kind of thing. But that's that connection that organization I've never been organized ever. And now with that connection to one, I have a couple of spreadsheets that I love to use, not too many, but I have a couple of spreadsheets I love to use. It's really been a game changer for me.

Linda Frazee (27:36):

Well, that's a really good example of a routine. And, and as you said, that's almost like a blast to many sevens. Like don't, don't, I don't wanna do any routine. I don't wanna do this the same time and yet what we resist persists and what we resist is almost always what we need. And so that doesn't mean that every single day you will do eat the same thing, go the same place, do all of that, but it does mean that you have some foundation underneath you and you have to begin to deal with the details about anything, because see, that's another weakness of the seven. It can be if they, unless that gets developed. So in fact, I have a number of things of suggestions for those who are entrepreneurs and think they might be a seven. So the first thing is stick with it, because if it's not fun, it's just really easy to abandon.

Linda Frazee (28:32):

Yeah. You know, and that, and that may be a business or that could just be watching a show out. I don't like this show and, you know, just it's, I'm gone, you know, or, you know, I, I thought we tried this new activity, but nah, I don't like it just, you know, no don't know, not for me. And so much of the time it takes a while to adapt to something new, whether that's a new habit, whether that's a new fun kind of you know, activity or whatever, so, or a business. So if you've run into if you're a notary and you've run into some sticky parts, cuz will be sticky parts, you know, I wanna say, take some deep breath and listen to, to Bill's courses and keep going and develop a love of details or at least see them as an important factor because, and then of course in the notary business, there's a lot of details and it would be easy to get overwhelmed with those or in any business. Any business has more details and I I've never liked details either. And I also have a line to one from four, which is another story, but I, I, I have to deal with them. I just have to deal with them. And if you are, if that, it really gets in your way, if that's a major roadblock, hire somebody to handle your

Bill Soroka (29:46):

Details. Yeah. That's one of the big lessons too. It's work your strengths, hire your weaknesses.

Linda Frazee (29:53):

Right. Exactly.

Bill Soroka (29:56):

Learned that from Greg Reed. And that was, that was a game changer for me too, cuz it's also hard for me to let go of things, right? Let go of control of some things. And the reality of that too, is that I don't always have what the next steps are going to be. Right. And my I've got a million different ideas going through my head. So delegating becomes a job within itself. Right.

Linda Frazee (30:17):

And I have been called on that as an entrepreneur for 40 years of people saying, well, you have all this information in your head, you know? So I, I, I had to learn how to download it, you know, and literally put it in writing because a lot of people need it in writing and it doesn't mean it's wrong. It's just that you're so used to doing it, that you don't have to share it. And, and then another complaint people have is, but it's gonna take me a long time to teach somebody to do this. And it's just easier if I just do it myself, but that's, that's a trap too, because then you're trapped like that forever. Right. So now another thing learn to distinguish between an interesting idea and a viable venture deal there, you know, cause every idea to a seven is exciting. Just so signing and Bill is kind of an expert about this. So tell us a little bit about how that was for you with all those businesses of the past.

Bill Soroka (31:10):

Well, I obviously for just based on results with 26 of those failed ones and some of them didn't last very long at all I don't, I obviously wasn't listening to that and that I'd love to hear your take on this is I wish the universe spoke English. I wish that when you had a feeling or an intuition or a calling towards something that it just said, Hey, this is a great viable idea that you should invest all your time, energy and resources into and you should do this one. But the reality is that that voice sounds a lot like the other voice for talking about the other idea. That's not a viable, it's interesting, but it's not viable. So how do you discern between those? That is really the question.

Linda Frazee (32:01):

Well, that's, that's a very good question and it's different for everybody, but just on the general I've done, I've done both sides of this myself. I figured out the other day that I've done seven, seven businesses. Not all of them, mine I've been a consultant on some of them and some of them were mine. And part of it is you know, really getting a reality check, you know, because it's like, if you're enthusiastic and then you have the friends around you who think the same way you are, then everyone's going, oh yeah, you get all the support. Yeah. That's a great idea. However, there's a, there's a thing called the feasibility study and that's a really good idea. I mean, and then people say, well, I don't have money for that. Well, if you don't have a money for the feasibility study, you probably don't have money for the business.

Linda Frazee (32:45):

You know, that's yep. Unless you're buying, you know knitting needles and your, your business is knitting or something, that's really gonna be very inexpensive. And even though that would add up over time, so really getting mean other people who are not involved in it or not your friends to really look at it, to see, is there really an income about this? What's the competition and what are the things that could get in the way. And particularly right now, there's a lot of room for lots of new businesses. And there's also a lot of directors. I mean, there's a lot of, I mean, like getting people to work for you, it could be, this is, you know, just how it is today, but at the same time, you know, there's lots just think of Amazon, look what Amazon has done. So we have lots of examples of that, but you have to be able to have somebody else and then take the feedback.

Linda Frazee (33:34):

One time I paid to have a feasibility study done and then didn't follow it. And it wasn't the only reason that the business didn't work, but it was a big one, but, you know I thought that, oh, well, I, I know more than that. I was young and foolish of course at the time. And, and so learning to say, gee, if I'm gonna pay for something, I really gotta figure that they probably know more about it than I do. The, and so the other thing is that on the other hand, though, if you have a great idea and you have the enthusiasm and you can get some other people who really support it then sometimes you really have to move with it because you know, what great ideas happened at the same time. I mean, you know, I have had many ideas that were a, to ahead of time.

Linda Frazee (34:22):

I wanted to have a drive through a food business that had vegetables and, and salads and things. And, you know, and I really, and by this time I'd gone through enough of these that I ne I never got to the point of doing it, but I checked it out very closely and realized that that was gonna be difficult is what if you didn't sell this, the product, it, it was lost. I mean, you know, your produce, isn't gonna last maybe two days at the most. And so, and how do you get, it was a brand new thing, but now in Phoenix they have Greens To Go yeah.

Bill Soroka (34:54):

And Salad To Go and all those, oh.

Linda Frazee (34:56):

And now, and a big line and people are running through there and getting all this. So again, here's an example of me having the idea 30, 40 years ago was way too soon.

Linda Frazee (35:07):

Yeah. You know, and, and yet it was still a good idea, but had I done it, it probably would've gone belly up.

Bill Soroka (35:13):

That's so true. Timing is, timing is important too.

Linda Frazee (35:16):

So there's timing. So I don't have an exact answer for that. I'm just saying that, I think that being excited about the idea, checking it out, getting a feasibility study. And then, and then also having look at how feasible it is for you, because this is another thing for the seven. Don't forget to factor in the level of repetition and boredom required to get the job done or the venture done. Yeah. You know, it's, it's, it's like, oh, it's so exciting. It's gonna be wonderful. It's like having a baby. Well, yeah. Having the baby and birthing the baby is great. And they're little and cute. And then it's day after day of feeding the baby and diapering the baby and feeding the baby and diapering the baby.

Linda Frazee (35:53):

And it's crying all night and, you know, and, and people I'll tell you that when you're gonna have a child, but you, you don't quite get it until you're in it. Then you go, oh, I didn't know it was gonna be like this, you know? . Yeah. And so it's kind of like that with the business. I mean, if you're somebody who just doesn't really like the details and, and you've chosen the business, that's got lots of details. You really have to say, okay, am I really the one who can do the, is, you know, am I really the one who can sit and, and, you know, add up the numbers, you know, five times a day, or whatever's required and not go clear over with the enthusiasm about the idea with overlooking it.

Bill Soroka (36:29):

Yeah. The so I love that you mentioned that because for me now, like I still get so many ideas in a day that could be viable. They're definitely interesting. Sometimes they're exciting. I write 'em down in my book, but when I make a decision to move forward, now, I let, 'em just sit. Like, I like to give them outta my head and I'll write 'em down. If I come back to them or if I obsess about them, that's where the arts to get - Cause I feel like that's a deeper message from somewhere mm-hmm OK. That one's sticking for some reason. I'm gonna explore that a little bit. I'm not just gonna take action. I mean, I still sometimes will just jump in and buy a domain name. I have hundreds of them purchase, but I won't necessarily say, all right, this one's gonna get all my energy now.

Bill Soroka (37:17):

Now I let it. I just, just let it simmer and see what happens. Maybe we're jot down some more ideas and do that. And I love that you said feasibility study, because the way I have made decisions and it's it's 99.9% no's now, like, no, I'm not moving forward, but if you're not willing to do the work on a feasibility study, even outside the expense, you're not willing to do the research to find out if it's real or not, then it's not a business you should be pursuing because right, using the baby analogy, like it needs your attention. It deserves your attention. And if you're doing business for the right reason, which is bringing that you to the marketplace, then you owe it to your customers, to yourself and your legacy to do the research, make sure that it is viable. Do people want this?

Bill Soroka (38:09):

Is it going to make the difference that you want? And when you do that research, even if you get over that hump, don't avoid the truth Uhhuh. when I look back at my history and what I was doing, I avoided the, I didn't wanna see the truth. I was "researching". But I was really trying to design the right logo, finding kitchy names. And I've encountered evidence that said, this is not going to work. Nobody wants this. Yeah, nobody's going to buy this, but I ignored it because I wanted the idea. I wanted the idea more than I wanted the actual product.

Linda Frazee (38:46):

That is really, really good to say that Bill, because I'm sure those sevens will really resonate with that. And everybody can, every type on the Enneagram can resonate with the idea about, you know, really wanting something more and, and really turning a blind eye to the factors that would say, no, no, this is not a good deal. And and that's, that's just a natural kind of thing. The other thing is the time and the money. I mean, like, let's, let's go back to the baby analogy. So yeah, you wanna have a baby, but you don't have a babysitter. You have no family nearby. And it's gonna take money to pay the babysitter if you're both working. And so you know, just how do you go into that and figure out, okay, what are we gonna do with that? Now babies sometimes come along, even when they weren't planned with that.

Linda Frazee (39:33):

And so that creates another illness, but if it's a business that you're gonna get into, you have to look at, okay, that's gonna take, oh, I could do that in five minutes. I could do that two hours a day. Well, really, you know, and what's your job now. And, and where are you gonna get those two hours? And anybody can do anything for a short period of time. You can overwork for a period of time, but you can't do it for a lifestyle forever. Without there being some serious consequences. There's a mentally helpful physically, right?

Bill Soroka (40:03):

Exactly. There's a huge, energetic toll. And I still learn this and you've been teaching me this for 15 years, but there's a, there's a, for every ounce of energy that you put into something, there there's a price to pay for it inside your body, you know, with your mind, energy Uhhuh and that two hours can, you might be okay. I love how you said this. Cuz for certain stints or bursts of energy, I can go hard, but I pay a toll for that. Mm-Hmm I might have to take a week or two of doing practically nothing just to recover for that.

Linda Frazee (40:37):

Right. And you can't sign up to something. So you think, well, I'm gonna do this business and I'll have these two things and that'll be just great. And then you add up how many hours realistically it's gonna take. And it comes out to be 12 or 14. Right. You know? And, and then if you hear from a feasibility say, well it, you know, most of the time it takes three to five years to get a business up going. The good news is about becoming a notary, especially with an organization like Bills, you could get into it. And you know, a lot of the outside stuff is taken care of. Oh, another factor, let me change. Shifts just a minute. If you've never been an entrepreneur, you need to, to begin to to grow that part of you that can trust because that's another factor that the Enneagram is involved in.

Linda Frazee (41:20):

But even beyond the Enneagram, it's an idea that if you believe you should have a regular paycheck that somebody else provides and that it's gonna come, you know, and that you're gonna put so many hours in and gonna get this paycheck and being an entrepreneur often isn't in, there's a delay. Let's put it that way. Yeah. , I've been an entrepreneur for, for 40 years. I have not had a regular anybody paying my paycheck. I've not had anybody pay my insurance, my taxes, I've done all of that for 40 years. And it, it requires a lot of trust, which I, I have developed over time and I have a more risk risky kind of personality. So that's helped a lot. But if you are not, if you're somebody who like is risk averse, you know and you have had a paycheck all your life and you don't have enough money in the bank to carry you through some dicey time, it's probably better to save up some money before you start something like that. So you, you, you don't get so afraid cuz all people have fear that you can't get it done.

Bill Soroka (42:22):

Right. I totally agree. It's nice to have a, it's not even about a, a safety net. It's just a, a plan in place. So you're not acting out of desperation because when we start acting outta desperation, that's when things go haywire.

Linda Frazee (42:37):

Right. And, and it's also being with yourself where you are now not saying that that's where you're gonna be the rest of your life, right? Because even if you are in the triad of the Enneagram, that's the, the five, six or seven, it tends to be more fearful. It doesn't mean that you're doomed and you can't ever get out. It just means that you have to work with yourself a little more and perhaps some of the other types around that aspect and to make sure that you have, what's what you deem is important as a resource so that you, you're not coming from fear. So let's talk a little bit more here. I've got some interesting quotes. And, and see how Bill responds to this. This is a quote about a seven and these of several of these are anonymous. So I only have one that I can give you the author. She had a mind like a box of fireworks and hands that played recklessly with matches.

Bill Soroka (43:33):

Who you just described the first half of my life. I think .

Linda Frazee (43:41):

Yeah. So I thought that was really a visual image of like, she had a mind like a box of fireworks and a hands that played recklessly with matches. Yeah. So that shows that's an, for the, of a lot of addictive behavior impulse control, lack of impulse control, exciting just an exciting venture, another wonderful option and lighting the matches.

Bill Soroka (44:09):

Well, yeah, it's like having an idea and just taking action right away. That's one thing that is both a strength and the weakness. Yes. I get an idea. I take massive action on it sometimes. And it might be massive action in the wrong direction, on, on some things or without really thinking it through in the unhealthiest place. So I can totally relate to that one. Like

Linda Frazee (44:30):

Yeah. So learning, learning to be a little more like you've said, just letting it percolate is what I would say, having these ideas, writing them down, say, yeah, this is a great idea. Let's just let this sit for a while

Bill Soroka (44:41):

Because the impulse is like, okay, let's do it now. And then this one I like, because this is a strength of a seven sometimes on the way to a dream, you get lost and find a better one. Oh, that's per… I need that on my t-shirt and my . Oh, I love that.  

Linda Frazee (44:58):

Yeah, because it's, and

Bill Soroka (45:00):

That has been so true in my entire life. Yeah. I love that.

Linda Frazee (45:04):

Right. So, and, and, and, and the good news for seven is they can go off to that better one. So one of the other types of the Enneagram can say, no, no, no, I was going that way. I can't, I can't. No, no, no, no. I'm not gonna look at that. I don't see it. But the seven whose mine darts quickly to this says, oh, well, that's better than this. I will just switch over there. And oftentimes that's the one that really, you know, is the one that becomes the best one. And then go ahead.

Bill Soroka (45:32):

I was just gonna say, that's kind in a lot of ways. That's literally how my businesses happened. Right. I had all these big dreams, 26th of 'em and then the 27th one led me to being a notary mm-hmm , which led me to being on YouTube, writing books, and just, and literally like step, step by step, closer to closer to a dream life that I never in a million years would've guessed. Right. I've been keeping that quote forever. Linda.

Linda Frazee (46:05):

Okay, good. And here's one that Hemingway said that I think is really good when you stop doing things for fun, you might as well be dead. Yeah. So sevens are that's another strength of the seven. They have fun. And when, even though some of this might be distraction, they are also very good at creating fun, having fun, knowing what they like to do and making that happen. And and that's a real big balancing aspect of any personality is ability to have fun. And it doesn't really matter what it is you do for fun. If it's putting a jigsaw puzzle together or, or hiking the mountains or, you know, going to concerts or whatever it is, it doesn't matter. It's about what feeds you. And so for a you know, they probably have a whole list. Anytime you wanna tag along, you could go along and have lots of fun, but that's really important. And then here's another one that people often say about sevens, or this is a good response to it. You say, I dream too big. I say you think too small. Hmm.

Bill Soroka (47:10):


Linda Frazee (47:12):

Okay. So sevens have big dreams. They look the, they don't just see making one widget. They have a, a warehouse full of widgets, and they're now distributing them around the world, you know? And, and so it may take a few years, and maybe it's gonna be distributed in the United States and not around the world, but that's, that's the bigness of it that really works. And people are attracted to that. They're attracted to that because especially after a pandemic, especially after, you know, a lot of the things that have gone around in the world, you know, bad weather and wars and all of that, that it, it tends to make us shrink in our in our thoughts, in, in our habits in, in, in just the way we think of life. Like, well, I couldn't do that. And so dreaming big is really a, a good thing. And the sevens do bring that. So that's another reason why people wanna be a seven. And here's another one. And this even though Bill, I know, I knew Bill during this time when he was trying new businesses, not every time was he was this accurate for him, but you'll see what I mean, "Success is the ability to go from one failure to another, with no loss of enthusiasm."

Bill Soroka (48:19):

That was Winston Churchill, right? Yep. Yep. Yes. Like he was talking to me from the grave .

Linda Frazee (48:31):

So in in conclusion I have something here for the end, but I wonder Bill, if you wanna add anything anything we've missed you think is important since you are a seven. Oh, I have something I wanna get back who I wanna add it myself. I talked about who moves toward, who moves away, who moves against, and actually the seven is one that moves against - not - because they move against being limited.

Bill Soroka (48:57):

How do you define moving against

Linda Frazee (49:00):

The ones that move toward are the one, two and six, the one moves toward because that's the right thing to do. And that's where the perfect answers are. Two moves toward, because they're almost always going to go help somebody or find out who needs help. And they, they're the ones who are gonna move quickly. The six moves toward because they, again are the worst case scenario might be happening and they're trying to avoid it. And they're trying to plan and take care of it. Okay. So the moving against the three, seven and eight, the three moves against because they're trying to make sure that everything is the best image possible and anything that gets in the way they're, they're moving against and the seven moves against limitation, you know, or anything that's and sometimes even a little bit against authority, somebody, especially if they say you can't do that, no, nobody's done that. The seven is they go, oh, well, I guess I'll just move away and forget it. The seven is like, watch me.

Bill Soroka (49:57):

And you're not the boss of me is my motto. Right. yeah. Right.

Linda Frazee (50:02):

You're not the mother, the eight who is actually called the boss in some cases will be doing next time. Next podcast, they move against just naturally, because it's just the way they are, they're made. So it's about a challenge and an opportunity. And then the three that move away are the four, five and nine. And they if they get challenged, they just kind of move back. Okay. The nine, because they're avoiding conflict the five, because they have to think about, what's being said to see if they can come up with a better answer and the four, because it could be emotional too emotional and they could get lost and it could be envious. And so they just move, move back.

Bill Soroka (50:42):

Fascinating. Fascinating.

Linda Frazee (50:46):

So in conclusion, once again, do you have anything you wanna add that, that we, we haven't touched on you think is important for these people today?

Bill Soroka (50:55):

No, I think we I think we did a, such a great job of just talking about what's going on in the head and the decision making process. So I think, and we're gonna get a chance to, to talk again specifically about our seven and the one connection and our work together. So I think that that's a good place to end. How would you like to close us out?

Linda Frazee (51:19):

Well, I've got the a nice model that is from that famous person anonymous again, to end with. And so if you, you listen to this and if you feel like you might be a seven, there are three suggestions here: stop leaving, and you will arrive. Stop searching, and you will find. Stop running away, and you will be found.

Bill Soroka (51:48):

Deep. All right, Linda, that was awesome. Great way to end out talking about number seven, who is not the best number on the Enneagram, but just one of those numbers. Thank you so much for the great conversation today. And I'm looking forward to the next one.

Linda Frazee (52:03):

Okay. Thank you, Bill. It was

Bill Soroka (52:04):

A pleasure. If you wanna get deeper into the Enneagram and really exploring this self, remember this, not about taking a test and telling you where you land. It is some deep work, and there's some descriptions at, which of course I have all those links inside the VIP room at Thank you so much for listening to the Side Hustle Lounge podcast.

Bill Soroka (52:28):

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