Bonus Episode: Pitfalls in Business by the Enneagram Numbers - THE THREE


Enneagram expert, Linda Frazee, joins us again for our series on the pitfalls of the individual personality types. The "3" is known as "The Achiever," or "The Performer," and can be counted on to get stuff done. But what happens when those strengths get over-used? Relationships get damaged, and their physical health might get sacrificed. Check out this edition of the SideHustle Lounge for more strategies to both identify whether or not you might be a three AND how to live a balanced healthy life as you lead with three.

Guest Information:

Linda Frazee has over 40 years of experience as a professional speaker, business consultant and executive coach. She is the author, "Full Heart Satisfied Belly," and is founder of Positive Imagery, Inc., a personal and professional development company located in Scottsdale, AZ. Her professional training is in Transpersonal Psychology and Imagery.

Join the Authentic Wisdom Community at

Episode Highlights:

17:42 So the core belief for the three is that the world values and rewards success and accomplishment above all else. And the core concern is failure. So the life strategy is busy accomplishing tasks and creating the right image.

18:09 There's a high focus on being competent and enthusiastic while inspiring others and bringing hope to difficult situations. Now all their attention goes to what needs to be done to gain success, prestige, and status.

33:17 The ultimate goal here would be that you, you can embrace all the highest qualities of all the types.

--- Full Raw Transcription Below ---

Linda Frazee (00:00):
One of my favorite quotes is from Young. And he says, until you make the unconscious conscious, it will direct your life and you will call it fate.

Speaker 2 (00:12):
Welcome to the Side Hustle Lounge. If you're looking for flexible ways to earn income, grow your mindset and live the life style you've always dreamed of, you're in the right place. So lower the lights. Grab your favorite beverage and join your host, founder of and Amazon bestselling author of Sign And Thrive, how to make six figures as a mobile notary and loan signing, agent Bill Soroka.

Bill Soroka (00:46):
Cheers and welcome back to my friend and coach Linda Frazee. We are talking about the Enneagram and Linda is an expert on the Enneagram. She's a business coach and founder of the Authentic Wisdom Community found at Linda, thank you so much for coming back to us.

Linda Frazee (01:08):
Well, it's a joy I'm looking forward to sharing more today and in the future.

Bill Soroka (01:14):
Yeah. Well now we, the previous episode, we gave everyone a really good overview of the nine different types that are included in the Enneagram. Now we're really going to start dissecting this a little bit more number by number. So we're gonna talk about the pitfalls that these individual numbers and the Enneagram might run into as they explore business or entrepreneurial endeavors. So as we continue this series Linda, can you just to dive a little deeper into the Enneagram share something about the Enneagram on this episode, something that maybe not everyone knows about the Enneagram?

Linda Frazee (01:56):
Well, that's an interesting thing to say Bill, because there's lots of, lots of things. And every week we can put, he knew about the Enneagram. But what I'd like to talk about today is the fact that the Enneagram is supposed to be 2000 years old. And I say two supposed to be because there weren't any records in those days written down, but it's, so it's, it's reported. It was handed down from the,ā €***[unclear] amazing theory that where this, the the types and the signs were written in the sand, because there was no paper or pens or, you know, electronic media in those days. So now, and it's been revised through the years, improved, I would say revised as a little incorrect. And it was brought to the United States in the seventies and has really, really flourished. And those of you who are listening, if you haven't run into the Enneagram before, we'll find it almost everywhere now. So when we talk about this system, this is not something that was is modern, it's ancient and been, and is it's ancient roots in a modern world.

Bill Soroka (03:04):
I love the way you put that. Yeah. And I think that's kind of comforting for someone like me too, to know that this isn't just some fad that somebody came up with in the last 10 or 20 years, and to start, decided to, to implement and force on people. This has been around for thousands of years and revised, and I love the word you used, proved.

Linda Frazee (03:27):
Well, and, and there's another thing about this, that, that falls right into this category, you know, so often people think that they're very self aware and there was a study done by a Doctor Eucris in 2018 of thousands of people about how self-aware they were. And it came down to the fact that there were two groups of people. One, one group of people thought that they were aware, about 95% of people thought they were self aware. And but the reality was that only 10 to percent, was the second group, really were. So she recommends, and she has a whole list of things about being what's self-aware gives you. And one of them is just a better life and no, no, no doubt about that. So, you know, better in the workplace, better adaptability, better creativity, better relationships, a number of, of, you know, just happier inside.

Linda Frazee (04:26):
And so then she lists three different things that you could do to, you know, what she would suggest if you're somebody who wants to become self-aware, and guess what, the Enneagram is the very first thing she mentions.

Bill Soroka (04:37):
Oh, no kidding.

Linda Frazee (04:38):
Yes. Yes. And and I just wanna say one last thing about that. One of the reasons, and I have taught the Myers Briggs and the Disc, and those are the other two things she suggests, but she suggests that you, that the Myers Briggs is the top one. And that's because it gives you the most information because you're the one who has to dive for it. So it isn't just a, even though there are some Enneagram tests, so to speak, or assessments, I really don't believe in them. I think the easier thing to do is to, to study it for yourself. On my website, I have nine paragraphs that you can look at and, and, and, and then study it, study it and go down deeper. Bill knows this because it took him a while to find himself. And if you really study it, it does take a while.

Bill Soroka (05:22):
Yeah, it sure, I mean, it took me years to, I think there's a lot of, oh, I wish I was this, or I think I'm this before I finally came to it. But I will say too, that discovering this has helped elevate my joy in my life and just really appreciate who I am, appreciate others. My communication styles totally changed. And I don't I don't feel as much shame as I used to about some of my characteristics and the shiny objects andā €***[unclear] things like that. We talked about that a little bit last episode. But I also, I, I find it really interesting. I'm speaking at a, or I spoke at a conference over the summer and one of the resources I created was kind of my journey through personal development. And some of the things that I did that really helped me become who I needed to become to do the big things I was dreaming about. And these personality profiles were, are at the top of that list and any Enneagram being at the top of that short list, because it is so in depth and allows us to choose not some random test or assessment. So…

Linda Frazee (06:35):
If you're gonna be an entrepreneur gonna go out there and do your own thing, or you already are if you're already doing it, you know, that there's some roadblocks that we all encounter. And most of those roadblocks are within ourselves. We like to project out and believe they're all out there, but the truth is getting out the door, making that call, picking up the phone, follow up on that lead, feeling confident when you do it really confident, not faking it till you make it, is all about your internal self. And that's one of the things that the anEnneagram can show you more about.

Bill Soroka (07:06):
Absolutely. And that leads right into what we're talking about and some of those pitfalls in business. Now, we're gonna start out talking about, what's referred to as the number three on the Enneagram. But before we jump into that, I think you're gonna segment the organization of these three different centers of the Enneagram to help organize our thoughts. Right?

Linda Frazee (07:29):
Right. Well, and that's interesting segment it because that's really true. So there's nine different types on the Enneagram and they're in three different centers and the simple way to think of those are the mind, the heart and the body. And of course, we all have a mind, we all have a heart and we all have a body. So it's not like if you're in a, a heart type, you don't have a head or a body or vice versa. But what it means is that you have an energetic preference to live from that space, number one, and number two, it's like a default system. So if there's a challenge or a fear or something that comes up, you automatically go to your particular center of intelligence, that's what is called an energetic center, a center of intelligence, would be two ways of thinking about it.

Linda Frazee (08:15):
It's almost like you have three different brains and modern science would act, actually agree with that in some ways, that, and so you go to your particular genetic predisposition one in order to to, to make the next step, take the next action to, to figure out the solution, whatever. So that's real important when it comes to self-awareness. So I wanna talk a little bit about the, so the three different types, as I said, there, like mind, heart and body or mental and you know, the one about emotions, which is where the three is, and we're gonna come back to that, or there's the the instinctive group, which is the body. So we'll do these, we're gonna start out with the emotional or the mental, the emotional or the heart types first.

Linda Frazee (09:05):
And there's three types in that. There's a two, three and the four. And of those two, three and four the issue in that center is being approved of others, having others approve of you of not disappointing people. The, the two, three and four in the, in the Enneagram types do not want to cause any conflict with other people because they want to be loved and appreciated. And that is such a primary driver that they can get themselves in all sorts of trouble about that. Because that's, that's the underlying motivation and most people don't know what that underlying motivation is as they're walking through life. And so just just a brief, we will go over all of these types. And we're doing the three today. We'll probably do the two now next time, and then we'll do the four in the next couple of segments.

Linda Frazee (09:59):
So I'm just gonna lightly touch on the two and the four. Remember they're all wanting approval. They all are into wanting to be liked. They're wanting to focus on relationships and and also just really being cared about. So the two, the way, and the, and the emotional energy behind all this is anxiety, because there's gotta be a lot of anxiety because you're not gonna do it perfectly. And you know, you, you're trying to read what other people are thinking about you and then adjusting it and adjusting your behavior so that they'll like you. And even though you may be, have been doing this since you were two years old, or even before, you know, there's some anxiety about, do they like me, did they look at me cross eyed? What are they thinking? Gee, what do I have to do now to get that approval?

Linda Frazee (10:45):
So there's a lot of anxiety in this center. And the two displaces that anxiety by helping people they're called the helper and they're just help and help and help. And they're, they scan around the room to look, to see who need help next. And they, they open the doors when they see somebody's coming and sometimes they over help, but it's all about them displacing the energy. The four kind of internalizes the anxiety. And they say, well, I don't think they like me anyway. And you know, it's because I'm not good enough, but look at that, I'm better over there, but I'm not very good here. And so they internalize and they get very emotional and sometimes even depressed. We'll talk about the fours in another segment, but that's what they do.

Linda Frazee (11:25):
Today, our talk is about the threes. Now, the three is right in between just imagine two, three, and four. And there they sit in between. So they have a little bit of both things in them as the two, the four. But what they have more than anything is a desire to avoid failure. So a three really is desperate for that approval and they're called a performer or sometimes the achiever because they are the doers. Now, there are many types on the Enneagram that are doing kinds of people they're busy about doing for a variety of reasons. But the three is one of the most doing types of all, because they want the approval. So they don't have a natural sort of screen or a a litmus test that comes up and says, okay, that's too much. You're doing too much. It just doesn't even arise. Because if, if they, the more they do, the more they think they'll get approval, they imagine, and they want, and they probably had a lot of that in their life.

Linda Frazee (12:27):
Now, I wanna talk a little bit about the fact that they are out there doing and performing because we think of performing often as like on a stage and they might be, but most of threes are not on a stage. They could be performing at the office. They could be a street sweeper, and they would be the best street sweeper there is. They're gonna be 10 times better than anybody else. They could be stay at home mom or stay at home dad. And they are just, the, the house is clean. The kids are clean. The, you know, the, their, their kids are being taken to all the classes. The clothes are cleaned, the food is done, they would be performing. So I think it's important to remember that when we talk about performing and achieving, it isn't just in the corporate realm.

Linda Frazee (13:09):
It just isn't as an entrepreneur, it's in every walk of life. They, they make usually good students, not always straight A students, but they are always performing sometimes as joking and having the kids laugh, maybe being a little bit of the class clown, but they are performing and achieving. And, and they wake up thinking about what's next? What am I gonna do next? So does this sound wonderful? In fact, in other European countries or around the world, those people who know the Enneagram and they are many around the world who do and if they looked at the Americas, America, they'd say, well, America is a three country.

Bill Soroka (13:50):
That's exactly what I was thinking. Are we all threes we're in this society where we're kind of groomed for this?

Linda Frazee (13:56):
Well, it's it, we're not all threes by any means. In fact, there's probably a few or threes and there are other types, but that we show up like threes, cuz there's a lot of pressure to get things done. It's you know, it's kind of what the founded the America was founded on. It's like that, that that the idea of like, we're gonna go out there and we're going to do it, you know, and we're, we're, we're getting, we're separate from everybody else and we're gonna go out there and we're gonna make it happen. And of course there was a lot of of, of production going on just to even get your house built when you first came to America or if you're gonna go across the Prairie. So there was a lot of doing that was required. And as I mentioned, all people go get things done.

Linda Frazee (14:36):
I don't wanna make it sound like the threes of the, Enneagram the only ones who get everything done and everybody else is taking an nap because that's not true. But what's true about the Enneagram that's different than other types is why you do what you do, not what you do. The three is really doing what they're doing for approval. It's an external locus of control. That's an old term that I, I learned in my studies of psychology many, many years ago. So there's two things about a locus of control. Some people their locus of control is inside them. So how do I feel about it? And that's their gauge as far as whether they've done a good job or they haven't, or whether people like them or not. It's all about the inside about how they feel. For a three the locus of control is definitely outside of them until they learn to bring it in.

Linda Frazee (15:25):
And and that's, that's a way of becoming conscious. So what that means is that that the three is a only as good as their latest performance is as good, whatever they're performing, remember achieving, whether that's getting the emails done, cleaning the house, you know, sweeping the sidewalk. It doesn't really matter what the criteria is, but it's the outside criteria that they're looking at. And they're only as good as that is. Now an illustration of that is I've trained many people to speak, before audiences for a variety of subjects and, and so things through the years. And I once had a professional speaker who I was in the audience watching her to make sure she was practicing what I had been teaching her. And all of her attention was going to one guy in the back who was sitting not looking at her.

Linda Frazee (16:11):
He had his head turning, his arms were crossed and his legs were crossed. The rest of the audience were absolutely eating right out of our hand. They were just loving what she was saying. They were listening intently, but this woman's, the speaker's attention was just going this three speaker was just going back to this guy. And that's because that felt like a failure to her, that he was not engaged. He was not watching. He didn't, he wasn't showing her anything with his body that he was enthusiastically liking her, her, her speech. And so she was, all of her attention went to that. Now that's an illustration of how minute the failure could be. There could been 500 people in that room. And she managed to find the one who wasn't really engaged and focused on him because that was a sense of failure. So when we talk about failure, when I often ask threes about failure, you know, it's usually not some drastic failure.

Linda Frazee (17:07):
Certainly we all have, have not won at every game we've played, so to speak, whether that's literal or, figuratively, but it can be just so small as like walking down the hall and somebody doesn't speak to you. You say, good morning, John and John is busy thinking about some, doesn't say anything. That's a failure. What did I do to John? Oh my gosh. I wonder why John's mad at me. Gee, let me think about everything the last time I saw John. Okay. That's about the high need for approval. So that's, that's the Achilles tendon of the, of the three. So the core belief for the three is that the world values and rewards success and accomplishment above all else. And the core concern is failure. So the life strategy is busy accomplishing tasks and creating the right image. That's the other thing, I didn't mention the image word of all these, these emotional heart types image is very important.

Linda Frazee (18:07):
What are the people think of me? There's a high focus on being competent and enthusiastic while inspiring others and bringing hope to difficult situations. Now all their attention goes to what needs to be done to gain success, prestige, and status. You know, one of the typing questions I ask when I'm leading a typing survey to find, help somebody find themselves on this system is what happens to you if you've done something and, and and nobody really pays attention. What if nobody says, well, that was a good job? See if your locus of control is inside you go, it doesn't matter because I know, I know I did a good job. That'd be another type. But if your locus of control is out, you're saying, well, gee, nobody even noticed it and worse yet,, what would you do if somebody else took credit for your good job done? Hmm. That would get a three for sure. Because their core value is productivity, accomplishment, and success. But because of, at locus of control on the outside, success is an outside thing. I have to hear it and know it.

Bill Soroka (19:15):
Yeah. So this was an important distinction for me because as I was trying to figure myself out, I thought I was a three for a long time because I do have the optimisticā €***[unclear] You know, I've got tons of stuff going on all the time, and I love the sense of accomplishment. But working with you, you actually helped because that locus of control was not external. And the key differentiator was the failure. You know, I, I failed in business. I've shared my story a lot. I've failed 26 times. And you said that wouldn't be a three.

New Speaker (19:50):
No, I remember when you said, well, I know I might be a three. I said, look, you, you, you, would've not kept going. And the, the sense of failure of 26 times, would've just been like, I think I'll just go home and put the blanket over my head and forget it, you know. And to get back on the horse and ride 26 times, you know, that's just an enormous ex, expectation for a three. But the seven that's a shiny object and wow, there's another SI shiny object. I can do it over there. So  

Bill Soroka (20:17):
Right. This, this quest for approval, you know I know a couple of threes one or, well, actually a few of them were not necessarily happy when they discovered that they were a three this, this, I idea that you're seeking approval. How do you, how do you recognize that if somebody's listening and says, yeah, this sounds like me, but I don't care what people think, but how do you decide if maybe you do, maybe you are a three, that's got some stuff covered up.

Linda Frazee (20:45):
Well, the the first thing about any type, whether you're looking at a three or any other type that we talk about is to look completely throughout your life. So look back as far as you can remember about your childhood, about what were you doing and why were you doing it? And that's not easy. That's that a self-awareness that we talked about? Because it seems like when you're a kid, you're doing it all about your parents, which is largely true, but your real personality is starting to man emerge at that point, your, your, your genetic predisposition. So from a standpoint of you know, looking back, are you trying to get somebody's approval? Are you trying to stay away from the, the, and if there's conflict in the house, are you just producing because it's fun? You know, what is it that you're looking for?

Linda Frazee (21:30):
And so when you're looking back throughout your life, when you're thinking, gee, I've, I've been somebody who got things done, were you driven to distraction to get things done? You know, it, the difference between Bill is a seven and this three we're talking about would be that the seven is like, well, that would be a fun thing to do. That's exciting. I wanna do that. That would be great. And visualizing the fun results and how people would be happy and all, but not necessarily telling him, oh, that's a wonderful job. The three would be saying, how could I get more done? How can I get seen in the, in the world so that people will know that I am you know, I'm the best. And that's the other thing, there's real quest for the three to be the best. So I'm a four on the Enneagram I'm right next door.

Linda Frazee (22:13):
And a lot to, a lot of people, I appear to have a lot of those same qualities of, of getting things done. But I have a kind of a revulsion about being the best. I wanna be good, but I wanna be unique. I don't wanna just be, but being the best with being well, you know, so that's not so hard. so I know it's just a difference of terminology, but those are the kind of things that you wanna look at for yourself. So back more about that question, an excellent question Bill, about how do you know we all are trying to get things done. And in this three-ish kind of United States of America, there's a big push to get things done. You know, you are, what you do is a lot about what our whole society says. Although the pandemic has, has shifted that a little bit.

Linda Frazee (22:57):
and so how do you know? Well, because you have to look at many factors, just not your, the need for approval, but also your fear of a failure. And then there is the sticking point of three, and that cuz each type has their challenge. And we call that a sticking point. And that's self deceit and what's self deceit for the three is means hiding one self behind the image of success and efficiency and avoiding feelings in order to accomplish more. On one of my panels that I ran, which is a group of threes was talking to this woman says, well, I don't have time for feelings. They just get in the way. They stop my production. You know, if I'm, I'm, I'm busy accomplishing. And then, you know, I have some feelings, I just have to push them away because they get in the way.

Linda Frazee (23:43):
So that is a sticking point because of course what happens is I said, there's not actually a governor on a three, as far as like saying no. Boundaries are hard for all three of these types in the heart center, but for the three, the boundaries are hard because that's another opportunity. That's another time I can accomplish something. So let's say, do you wanna be on this committee? Yes. Yes. I'd love to do that. Well. And what, because you come to a meeting three times a week, of course I can. All right. Could you write a paper on it? Absolutely. Can you make a speech on it? Of course I can. Without any thought about, oh my gosh, when am I gonna do this? You know, I already have a full plate. How do I do this? And so what gets lost in this, is your authenticity, which is the opposite of self deceit.

Linda Frazee (24:29):
Self deceit is a belief. I can do anything. I can just expand myself, if you know, I've only got this much energy, no problem. I'll just expand it. Oh, you want me to do more fine? I can expand it. And then what about more naturally? I can expand it. So what gotten lost here is a connection to one's self one's own energy. One's own internal happiness, one own's one own their own body. And so what ultimately happens is a six, the three gets sick. Now it might look because they've over extended on a, not just once, because anybody can overextend for a certain period of time. If you're finishing a book, if you're finishing a project, if you are working for someone and they say, gee, it's, we're gonna give you overtime, whatever the situation is, anybody can do that, pick it up and, and do more. But you can't live your life like that about expanding your energy and doing more and more and more and be completely unconscious about it without there being some consequences. So at first that just might look like flu might look getting cold frequently, but if it's overdone, it can get to the point where this, this three can get seriously ill and have to take six months or a year completely off because they have just exhausted their energy. So that's the danger.

Bill Soroka (25:54):
And that's what burnout looks like it's illness. And it sounds, it sounds to me as you describe it that's, there's other things that might get sacrificed besides physical health too. It sounds like maybe relationships personal and even business relationships.

Linda Frazee (26:06):

Bill Soroka (26:06):
Feelings and emotions are, are part of the human experience are part of the business experience. So in the, in attempting to overachieve they might be skipping opportunities for vulnerability and a authenticity.

Linda Frazee (26:21):
Right? Exactly. And so authenticity is really the virtue for them as far as like, as all the veracity being rigorously honest because the self deceit is, it doesn't mean that there's somebody who's out you know cheating and, and, and doing illegal things. It means that they do not really value themselves because there's, that locus of controllers out there trying to get the attention so much that they're not even aware that they've just agreed to do a hundred things in 7 days that couldn't be done in 21. If they, if they really tried, they don't even, and don't even realize it because it's like a carrot on stick. I it's like, yes, yes, of course I want that. And so the running toward it is, so enthus, with such great enthusiasm and by the way, they do accomplish a lot, they do amazing things.

Linda Frazee (27:12):
I think Oprah Winfrey is a three. And she has, has now gone into a lot of personal growth and actually promotes personal growth in a big way, which is very healthy. But, you know, she came up through a very impoverished sort of situation and she didn't give up and she kept going through prejudice through a lot of things. And, you know, has amassed, not only a, a fortune, but has done a lot of good work in the, in the world. So there's your three for you at the highest level, but a lot of threes, go ahead.

Bill Soroka (27:44):
I was just gonna say, I think that's really important, you know, having that kind of drive can obviously serve a three and then the sticking point when it goes, I guess that would be a strength overused?

Linda Frazee (27:57):
Yes. Once again, any strength, overused becomes a weakness and and there's also the blind spot. So each type has a blind spot as human beings. And that's part of the self-awareness of really getting why it's important to be more self-aware they don't get how driven they are to others. They don't get that when their kid comes and asks for something. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'll get to you. I got, I gotta hurry. I gotta hurry. They can be dismissive or impatient when in a hurry. Their obvious fear of criticism keeps others from giving them vital feedback. And also they morph. Now what I mean by that threes have an innate ability that's like a used car salesman and that's, that's not an over, that's not a compliment. Although they don't know it. See, this is a blind spot.

Linda Frazee (28:49):
We a really good used car salesman sees you coming sizes, you up immediately and knows how to morph and be however you need, they need to be, to be your friend. If somebody is very rigid and very, you know, opinionated, and they hold their body in a, a very straight kind of way, if you could put a camera on 'em, you'd see that just, this good used car salesman is doing the same thing so that you know, that you can build rapport. I mean, this is some of sales training, but threes don't need sales training because they came by it naturally. And so they are good actors and actresses and they can actually morph and they do it so easily they don't even know it. It's a blind spot for them. But let's say a six and we'll talk more about the sixes and, and future sessions here.

Linda Frazee (29:37):
But the six, which is this loyal skeptic, let's say a loyal skeptic happens to be watching this three. Let's say they work with the three. I go, look, they just talked to Bill and I don't know, they said this and that and the other. And they seemed like this, you know, nice person. And then they went over there and talked to Linda and it was like, they were a different person. How can I trust him? You know, because I don't know. What's really true about them. And that's kind of the self deceit. So it's not literally trying to deceive anybody else. It's what we call morphing bobbing and weaving to become who is needed to get that approval to build rapport. And of course, sometimes that works well, as far as, you know, it's not that, we that's something that everybody learn how to do to some degree, but not to the point where you become completely a different person,

Bill Soroka (30:27):
Right? Like I can see where that would be a value in diplomatic situations, in marketing relationships, networking and things like that. But then it goes, I can go outta control.

Linda Frazee (30:37):
Right? So they, and they have, we all have triggers and the three has some special triggers. I mentioned one already. They're good work, being overlooked, being ignored, anyone seeing the insecurity behind their persona and being put in a position of likely failure. So as a small child, a three child will not play a game they can't win. Let's say they're just not good at it. Let's say it's monopoly and checkers and they know how to play checkers. Boy, they can beat everybody in the family with checkers, but monopoly. Yeah. They don't know. They, they just don't do so well. They just won't even play. Or if they do play accidentally, the whole monopoly board gets knocked over.

Linda Frazee (31:24):
Or, or suddenly if they're an older person, you know there's a phone call or a meeting they have to go to. So that would be, when you say, how would you know, you're a three look through your life throughout your life. And we naturally are drawn to things that we do well, but did you just avoid the things that you felt like you couldn't ever win at or do well at? Because there's a lot of value in playing a game, whether it's a sport or a board game that just for fun, you know, you don't have to win at it. It could just be fun, but if you had to win at it and it just, you and not winning was just awful. It was, you fell into failure. You as a child, you'd have the capacity it to even do it. And, and might add too, that as a parent, if you are looking and listening to this and thinking, gee, I wonder if my kid is a three, one of the best things you can do is encourage them to, to learn something that they're not particularly good at. And, and it enjoy the process anyway. So that's not excruciating, or let's say they're really a grade at basketball, but not so good at baseball, encourage 'em to play baseball anyway, you know, just for the fun of it, because that grows that part of them that feels like I can only do things that I do well.

Bill Soroka (32:36):
Yeah. And that, and that comes back to the, the point we talked about in the intro episode is the idea of the Enneagram and these personality assessments is not to pigeonhole you into a box, but to tear down the walls of the box, you've already put yourself in,

Linda Frazee (32:53):
Right? Because even as we're talking about these types, I really prefer the term that said you lead with a three, but you lead with the three. I really believe that there are people who are born with this genetic predisposition, you lead with it, but it doesn't mean that you are there for the rest of your life. It just means that you lead with that. And we'll be talking more about how you expand all the different aspects of your personality from other types. And of course the ultimate goal here would be that you, you can embrace all the highest qualities of all the types. So I wanna just go over a couple of things that what happens when a when a three gets triggered and they get stuck and they're in their deceit. They get to be competitive status seekers. They can be workaholics who believe that they are, they are the role they're playing. They, they can lose themselves so much. They don't know who they are. They can be obsessive overachiever in order to project the best image. And they might cut corners in a tradeoff for efficiency. They can be chameleon-like and they can be self-promoting.

Linda Frazee (33:54):
Now what helps a three? Slowing down, telling the truth about themselves is someone to they trust, learning to acknowledge and honor their feelings as valuable barometers to personal needs, wants, and activities. I worked with another professional speaker at one point, who had work for a couple of days. This was another woman and only found out later that she had a size, a size two small shoe. And, but she wasn't even aware of her feet hurting until two days later at the end of it. She permanently damaged her feet from wearing this two small shoes, but she didn't even feel the pain for two days.

Linda Frazee (34:34):
That's an example of coming back into your body and noticing what's going on. Now at best, a three is adaptable, optimistic, dynamic, multifaceted, self competent, highly accomplished, purposeful, effective leaders and inspirational to others. So there's a lot to be gained and you can see why the triggers and the blind spots and the overachievement can get in the way of being the best you can be. Now, I wanna add a couple of more things to being an entrepreneur. Certainly being a three and an entrepreneur, on some level there's a lot of good fits because you probably are going to get done what you say you're gonna get done or what you've decided needs to be done. However, being an entrepreneur means that there isn't an end of a weekday, either. It isn't like nine to five, and then everybody leaves the office.

Linda Frazee (35:28):
And so the tendency to get up really early and start working and find yourself working late at night is very strong. And once again, that burnout really takes a toll. So that's just not worth it. So you have to learn to be your own boss. And you have to be willing to be a beginner at something if you're just starting out as an entrepreneur and wanting to be the best is, is an okay kind of goal. But you have to accept the fact that there's some steps to learning and some experience to begin by taking one step at a time and plotting that out in a real way. So that would be some of the things that I would suggest for three. Bill, do you have some that, that are coming up for you for, as you've been listening?

Bill Soroka (36:14):
Yeah, definitely because and I know we won't be, get too much into this, but the seven is a lookalike to the three or the three that lookalike to the seven. And I can't wait to dive into that later on. But for me, what I have learned cuz I have, you know, I I start my day very early. I'll work well into the night, but I have to schedule that personal time too. So if there's somebody in your life that you enjoy spending time with, put it on your schedule to hang out with them, don't tell them that about that. , Don't tell them that you've scheduled them into the calendar or phone calls or text message to check in on them, set yourself up for success. You don't have to share that with anybody else, but that reminds me like, oh yeah, take, take some time away from your work. Especially when you love the work that you're doing, it can be really difficult. So schedule that phone call, schedule that lunch schedule, that bowling or that golf or that just hang out time where you're not checking your phone or checking your email or picking out domain names. You know, you've gotta schedule that into your day in the, it makes all the difference and helps keep things in balance.

Linda Frazee (37:22):
Right? And I, I would say that you know, taking time just to feel it's really hard for a three to do nothing. I had a client once who I I live in Arizona here in the same state Bill is, and Sedona is only wonderful metaphysical kind of place about a, about two hours away. And I was trying to get this, this woman who was a three who worked, worked, worked all the time. And when she wasn't working at work, she was working at home and she would had a side hustle and she was doing all sorts of things. I said, you need just to go away by yourself. Well, she wasn't very enthusiastic about that, but she finally agreed. And so I said, just go to Sedona, just spend one, not right. And just, you know, be by yourself and don't do anything.

Linda Frazee (38:03):
So she did, she went up to Sedona and it just happened that, that my husband and I went to Sedona that weekend ourselves. And I hadn't even thought of that when I suggested it to her. And we ended up seeing her in the grocery store oh. And she came running over and she said, I couldn't do it. I just couldn't do it. I'm here. But I had to be doing something I had to come to the store oh, okay. I said, well that's okay. So go, go back to the store and just, just watch the river, look at the rocks, just meditate. And that was the beginning of a turn for her. It, it didn't happen all at once. It wasn't after that weekend, she was able to do everything perfectly. But what did happen is she was able to begin to relax enough to enjoy herself and really know what was going on.

Bill Soroka (38:51):
I love that. I love that. And that was what that's bringing up for me too, Linda. And I wonder if you can talk a, just a second about it, as we wrap up here is as people learn about themselves, you know, especially people who aren't used to doing this in their work there's inevitably going to be some shame where we come up and we shame ourselves for being the way or having those pitfalls or those Achilles heel, as you said, how can people be kind to themselves?

Linda Frazee (39:18):
Well, that is, that is a big conversation, but I can give a couple of things. The first thing is finding out that you're not the only one who has this set of, of blind spots and triggers and irritations and behaviors really helps because we tend to think we're terminally unique. You know, that we're the only ones who ever have had this because we, if you haven't done a lot of self-awareness sharing with other people you really don't know that there are a lot of people that have the same thing, so that helps relax some of that. So you don't feel so, so isolated and so shameful about your behavior. And then of course the, the ultimate thing is just to forgive yourself for not knowing, you know. We, we live in this kind of three culture where you're supposed to be running and chasing, so we think. And nobody is saying to you, unless you're, you've got a coach or a therapist or somebody who's saying, like I said to that woman, stop and smell the roses, just be, you know, watch the river. I, and that's where your emotions come up.

New Speaker (40:18):
Your emotions really are a barometer inside you. And so if you've never really gotten in touch with them, or if you've been too busy working over the top of them, you need to forgive yourself compassionately for the fact that you, you can't, you didn't know what you didn't know. You know? And that's the first step. The very first step is like, didn't know what I didn't know. And it's impossible. It's like asking a kindergarten to do extremely high math or something when they don't even know their numbers. And so it's about taking that first step and saying, gosh, I didn't even realize that I was doing this. I didn't realize it was being dismissive to people. Okay. Because until you're conscious of what you're doing, you can't change it.

Bill Soroka (41:01):
Yeah. I love that.

Linda Frazee (41:02):
And in fact, one of my favorite quotes is from Young and he says, until you make the unconscious conscious, it will direct your life and you will call it fate.

Bill Soroka (41:13):
Mm. Wow. Powerful. Powerful. I love that. And I find that journaling and wa walking myself, talking myself through that in a journaling experience really helps out, especially when you're, you slip into that shame cycle. You can kinda talk yourself through it.

Linda Frazee (41:32):

Bill Soroka (41:33):
Linda, this has been enlightening about the number three. I can't wait, for those of you who are listening, we are gonna go through the pitfalls or the sticking points each of these numbers as it pertains, well to life and to business. So we'll see you on the next episode, Linda, again, thank you so much for being here today.

Linda Frazee (42:01):
It was a pleasure. Thank you, Bill.

Bill Soroka (42:03):
All right. See you next time. Thank you so much for listening to the Side Hustle Lounge podcast. You know, if you follow me on Instagram and social media, you already know that my pets play a huge role in my life. And I include them as part of the family. They are part of my why Dexter and Violet brings so much joy and love into my life that I always wanna make sure that they are well tended to and healthy. That's where my Toto Pet Insurance policy comes in. Toto was voted best pet insurance company in 2021 by Forbes advisor. And it's known as the pet insurance company with a heart and without the gotchas. There's no network of obscure vets that I'm forced to choose from so I get to pick my pet's doctor. And then depending on the policy I select, I can be reimbursed up to 90% of the vet bill and they make it easy to use. You visit any vet. You submit a claim. You get cash back. It's pet insurance finally done right. If you'd like to support the show, get coverage for your own fur babies, and maybe even give yourself some peace of mind at the same time. Get an instant quote today on Totos easy to use website at


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